By on December 14, 2012

Contrary to popular belief, I am not the wicked wagon hater that much of TTAC’s readership thinks I am. Perhaps I am a curmudgeonly realist when it comes to market forces – but I still like wagons. The fact is, I grew up in wagons, owned a wagon and might be just above the cutoff point where I can remember them dominating the family car segment, rather than crossovers or SUVs.

I’ve decided to put together a list of my favorite, and least favorite wagons of all time for your perusal. Your own comments are welcome as always.

 

5) Honda Accord Wagon – Seeing as how I grew up in these cars, I had to give them a slot. They are not the fastest, or sportiest or most elegant wagon to ever roam the earth, nor do they have the nerd/Ivy League cachet or a Volvo or Saab, but they are mechanically robust, if prone to rusting prematurely. The Kreindler household would get a new one every six months, until one day, they were no more, replaced by a first-generation Odyssey.

4) Volvo V70R – This seemed like the coolest car on earth when it debuted during my freshman year of high school. 300 horsepower was a substantial figure back in 2003, and the cabin-adjustable Ohilns shocks, big brakes and manual transmission wrapped in a wagon shell were the perfect anti-dote to the douchtastic, mustard color E46 M3s that were so popular at the time. But the harsh realities of Volvo ownership managed to spoil the later “R” cars for me. Alex Dykes’ tales of woe were sufficiently off-putting, while a friend’s father that owned an S60R described it to me as “the worst car ever” in terms of reliability.

3) Buick Roadmaster – Before I bought my first Miata, I nearly bought a 96 Impala SS. And this past summer, I nearly pulled the trigger on an LT1-powered Roadmaster, complete with wood paneling and a rear-facing third row seat. The B-Body wagons were already on their way out during my childhood, but there is something quaint and nostalgic about the faux-wood, the third row seat and of course, a small-block V8 in a rear drive wagon.

2) Subaru Outback 2.5XT – What do you get when you combine the Subaru Legacy 2.5GT’s drivetrain in an even more discreet package? This. Raised ride-height be damned, I would take it in a heartbeat.

1) Mercedes-Benz R63 – for such a rare car, there seem to be a handful of R63s around town. Sometimes they’re driven by grey-haired men, more often by women who probably aren’t aware that they’re driving such a special car. I don’t even know if it really qualifies as a wagon either. But it’s damn cool and uses the naturally aspirated V8. I’ll take it.

And 5 that aren’t so cool

5) Ford Granada Wagon – the first time I went to England, this car lasted all of 20 minutes before the brake calipers seized and we had to return it for a Volvo 760 “Estate”. By all accounts a wretched car in general.

4) Lexus IS300 Sportcross – it looks really cool and it’s obscurity factor makes it an object of fetishization amongst car guys, but that sloping rear hatch means cargo space is compromised. And it’s automatic only.

3) Mercedes-Benz E-Class W210 Wagon – a 180 degree turn from the rock solid W124 wagons. A quiet, comfortable vehicle I remember fondly from my youth, unfortunately marred by one of the worst reliability records of any M-B product.

2) BMW 5-Series GT – at one point, you could get a 535xi Touring. And then this hunchbacked turd came and replaced it.

1) Cadillac CTS-V Wagon – if I never hear about this car again, it will be too soon.

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148 Comments on “Derek’s Top 5 Wagons- And 5 Not-So-Great Wagons...”


  • avatar
    MZ3AUTOXR

    Funny thing that I recall about the switch from the Accord Wagon to the Odyssey was that the first gen van actually had less cargo space than the wagon.

  • avatar
    FJ60LandCruiser

    As the once proud owner of a 5 series wagon, I’d have to put that near the top 5 list right next to the outback 2.5 XT.

    BMW be damned to hell for replacing the 5 series wagons (which are quite elegant, especially in M trim) with the GT turd. They only made their sin worse by extending the GT line into the 3 series.

  • avatar
    philadlj

    The R63 is a strange but inspired pick. I think the last ones they sold in the US actually benefited from losing the ovals and getting a more aggressive face, and the AMG version’s lower stance makes for one mean-looking people-mover.

    • 0 avatar
      tatracitroensaab

      My family has one (but i dont think its with the v8). Honestly, its a great vehicle. repairs are expensive but there havent been too many, but whats really neat is three rows of buckets and adjustable 2nd row seats. This isnt like most three row vehicles where the last row is for kids — this was designed to move six big germans in comfort. Also I think that the aluminum piece that divides the cupholders is tight. it pops out and can be used as a bottle opener. no fake aluminum crap — this is solid. the sound system is great, also the gigantic moonroof/sunroof set up.

      Problems? Its too big for my tastes, mpg is mediocre, and the rear doors are too big (not actually as much a problem as you think). Also the rear hatch is motorized — you have to press a button and it opens itself. cool but complicated.

      This car is perfect for my family — its a status symbol for my dad, and it holds all six of us (we are all tall) in comfort. It will be sad to see it gone

  • avatar

    I think the original Taurus / Sable wagons should be on the best list. They were truly revolutionary at the time, especially the wagon version. Very forward looking and thinking.

  • avatar
    SC5door

    No Magnum R/T or the ultra rare 2008 SRT-8?

    • 0 avatar
      Roberto Esponja

      I had two Magnums as company cars and still miss them. Great cars in every way. Cargo space could have been better for some situations, but that was the exception not the rule.

  • avatar
    Kaiser1

    Mazda 6 Wagon?

  • avatar
    Jeff Waingrow

    Derek, maybe you remember the Honda wagon fondly, but I recall test driving a new one and was turned off by it’s noise, it’s rough ride, and it’s extreme narrowness. It was like sitting in a bowling alley lane. I have much happier memories of my Camry wagon, a smooth, refined, peppy (V6) and beautifully finished piece of work.

    • 0 avatar
      Xeranar

      I have never understood honda love as they are consistently narrower than everybody in their class. The 80s and 90s accords were the worst offenders in the time.

      Overall from that era I would agree the camry and taurus wagons were the best. The lux wagons are hard to compare to the work horses from GM & Ford.

    • 0 avatar

      Well, we owned an Accord wagon. I was small, so I can’t tell you if it was narrow. About the only complaint my parents had about it was that it was underpowered when fully loaded. Otherwise it always fit two parents, two boys, a dog, and all their stuff and made the trips. It also towed some boat trailers, rusted, hauled hay/small trees, rusted, got repainted, rusted, and hit some deer (thanks dad). For 13 years and 425,000 kms.

      My parents bought the Accord wagon after testing the Camry wagon. I’m not sure what won out, but I think there were some safety features that put the Accord above the Camry at that point.

  • avatar
    NormSV650

    Glad my SAAB 9-5 wagon that has 73 cubic feet and 38 mpg highway didn’t make the list. :)

    • 0 avatar

      If you can provide some kind of concrete evidence that your 9-5 gets 38 MPG highway I’ll place an order for a Brown 6MT TDI Jetta Wagon

      • 0 avatar
        yvrjonesey

        I got 34.5 MPG with my 2002 AERO wagon, 4 passengers, and a cargo hold full of stuff while returning to Vancouver from Portland. That was driving around 120 Km/h when possible. If I were to slow to 100, I bet 38 could be done, but I’d get to bored.

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        Hey atleast Norm toned it down from his usual claim of 43 mpg :)

      • 0 avatar
        markholli

        Haha.

        The building super in the high-rise condo my grandpa used to live in had a Pontiac Montana Van which he thought was the sh!t. He claimed he got 34 miles per gallon with a van-full of his overweight kids…and towing a boat.

        My guess is that at some point, while going down a hill, the instant readout mpg computer said 34, and he ran with it.

      • 0 avatar
        TCragg

        Derek, with VW Canada’s dearth of colour choices, you’d be out of luck on that brown(Golf) wagon. I guess if you moved to the US, Toffee Brown might be an option for you, but for us Canucks, we get no brown wagons.

      • 0 avatar

        FWIW, I can corroborate those mpg numbers for the 9-5. My experience with an ’05 9-5 Arc wagon, 2.3T automatic, has it getting 37-40 mpg (Imperial, that’s key) pretty consistently. This is based both on our own calculations and the car’s computer readout.

        Details:

        Driving styles: varied, gentle to semi-aggressive. Terrain: primarily rural, unlimited access highways, with an average traveling speed of about 100 kph. 91 octane fuel used consistently.

    • 0 avatar
      corntrollio

      Are we going to use the Saab 9-5 wagon canard again? Check out my comparison to a RAV4 in this crossover-hate thread:

      http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/12/in-the-land-of-wagons-the-compact-crossover-is-king/#comment-1977035

      I am by no means suggesting that the RAV4 is better than the 9-5, but rather that 9-5 owners often make outlandish claims about their Saabs.

      • 0 avatar
        vvk

        No they don’t. SAAB turbos, especially HO/Aero versions, are extremely fuel efficient. People routinely get mid-30s fuel economy on long trips.

        And we are talking about relatively cheap (after $8-10k in usual rebates) refined, superbly made, supremely comfortable cars that had THE BEST top gear acceleration in the world. Also, safest in the world (not Volvo.)

        You would sing a different tune if you owned one.

      • 0 avatar
        corntrollio

        “had THE BEST top gear acceleration in the world”

        I’ll take “Irrelevant Fanboi Stats for $500, Alex”:

        http://www.octane.ie/forum/archive/index.php/t-35164.html

      • 0 avatar
        srogers

        My Saab not only gets impossibly good fuel mileage, but it even transforms into a cyborg Shakira and makes sweet love to me when my wife’s back is turned.

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      It is simply amazing that the pinnacle of automotive technology was reached 10 yrs ago: a mid-sized turbocharged sport sedan with class leading interior room, acceleration as good or better than anything else in its class (or the world!), and better fuel economy than anything any manufacturer can produce even today without resorting to soul-sucking hybrid or diesel powertrains, and yet this company failed so miserably that no one even wants to buy it.

      It has to be a conspiracy by the oil industry to keep the Saab technology hidden. No wait, this is bigger than the oil industry. This has to be Obama’s plan to make GM profitable again. Oh wait, Saab was part of GM, so that’s not it… Russia? The Mafia? Tesla???

    • 0 avatar
      Power6

      You and all the Saab fanbois need to get on over to Fuelly and put in your magical 38mpg fill ups because right now, among the people WHO ACTUALLY TRACK THE MILEAGE, instead of talking nonsense in comments sections on the Internets it looks like mid 20s to me: http://www.fuelly.com/car/saab/9-5/

      This “I once got 38 mpg for 5 min downhill with a tail wind on the highway” stuff has to go too, give us at least whole tank.

      My old slushbox V6 Lexus gets about the same mileage as the almighty Saab. It breaks down less too ;-)

      • 0 avatar

        A few problems with this. For starters, the Fuelly figures (like the numbers given here, I’ll be fair) are for the most part based on the experiences of a very small number of drivers. Having 2 or 3 people reporting mileage on their car, whatever it may be, makes for a somewhat problematically small sample.

        I reject your “I once got 38 mpg for 5 min downhill with a tail wind on the highway” jab. Most people on this thread who have talked about the 9-5’s mpg numbers, myself included, have been pretty careful to note that this is averaged over a long period of driving, or at least over the course of a trip. Is 39 mpg realistic over the long haul? Maybe not, but 35-36-37 is, and that’s still mighty impressive consider the size of the car.

        Finally, I’m guessing the big disparity between the Fuelly/EPA numbers and those reported here is that most of the Saabistas here seem to be Canadian. As such, they’re reporting in Imperial gallons, which are larger than US gallons. Hence, a difference in what the mpg numbers will be.

        Is the 9-5 the most efficient car in the world? No. But it’s pretty darn good, and I don’t think it’s right to question the wisdom of people who own them and are well acquainted with them.

      • 0 avatar
        th009

        @amripley, while Fuelly has only 2 2011 9-5s, but overall there are more than 60. And the averages are far from 40 mpg imperial (32 mpgUS), 30 mpgI (24 mpgUS) is more like it.

        Yes, you can probably get great fuel economy on your 9-5 — but it’s because you’re cruising country roads at a gentle speed. Fuelly reports on a wide mix of driving conditions and styles, making it much closer to “typical” than a single anecdote.

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        Ex-GF’s Saab got fantastic mileage! It didn’t use much gas going up and down, upp and down on the garage’s lift.

    • 0 avatar
      drivebywire

      I have to jump into this and agree with the Saab faithful.
      Anyone who disagrees is either going to disagree with anything, or they have never owned a Saab (as in for the vehicles entire life…17 years for my 1991 900Turbo).
      I recommend asking a master mechanic who really knows Saabs, what he thinks of the 9-5.

  • avatar
    doug-g

    Thanks, Derek, for the list from the internet cafe. Now for the view from the Happy Hollows Maximum Security Twilight Home.

    Best:

    1. Oldmobile Vista Cruiser (the “real” ones from 1964-72)
    2. Ford Country Squire (any up to 1976)
    3. GM full-size clam-shell wagons (1971-76)
    4. Chyrsler hardtop wagons (from 1960-64)
    5. Bad-assed Pontiac Bonneville (and sometimes Catalina) wagons from the 60’s that were used by race car drivers to tow their trailers (they pop-up on Ebay)

    Worst:

    Pretty much everything else.

    • 0 avatar
      el scotto

      My dad loves tinkering with cars. Mom may have had the only Bonneville wagon with an oversize carb and headers in our small town. Now if I could only get a wagon like that. Definitely not dowdy or DD mule.

      • 0 avatar
        doug-g

        For some reason Pontiac had the lock on “unique markets” in the 60’s. Race car drivers loved the full-size Pontiac wagons – seems like Hurst ordered up some fully-loaded ones and added graphics. Also, the the majority of tricked-out cowboy convertibles were Pontiacs. I “think” the latter is b/c legend has it that Roy Rogers owned a Pontiac dealership on Ventura Blvd. Tying the two together, John Wayne owned custom built Pontiac wagons for years. Dad had a friend who owned a ’63 Catalina wagon with a four-on-the-floor and all the go-fast goodies. I’d love to have that now.

  • avatar

    I love the GM bubble wagons, and the bubble cars, generally. They harken back to what a wagon was in the ’60s, and they are the last GM cars, really the last American cars that had unself conscious style, except for the panthers, and the Corvette. (The Caddys try too hard, so they don’t succeed.)

  • avatar
    86er

    “The G-Body wagons were already on their way out during my childhood, but there is something quaint and nostalgic about the faux-wood, the third row seat and of course, a small-block V8 in a rear drive wagon.”

    So, like, ironic dood!

    Anyway, you meant B-Bodies. G-Bodies were the Cutlass Supremes and Monte Carlos the kids from Etobicoke drove.

    • 0 avatar

      I had my friend’s Grand National on the brain as I was writing it. Anyways there’s nothing ironic about it. I love those cars.

      • 0 avatar
        86er

        Mild teasing, as you can’t be nostalgic about something you weren’t around for the first time. But I’m glad you appreciate them for what they are. I’m alarmed by the number of kids who’ve taken a sudden interest in traditional “standard size” cars.

      • 0 avatar
        Power6

        I still recall reading about one of the Buick engineering study play toys circa 1987, an Electra Estate with ~350hp GN motor. It was light blue with no fake wood stickers, I saw it in a couple mags.

        Would not be hard to duplicate at all, once you find a clean Estate that is.

    • 0 avatar
      Neb

      I know exactly how you feel about the B-body wagons. You can still find reasonable condition Roadmasters out there, though the Caprice wagon seems to have vanished, at least east of Winnipeg. The Impala SS is a lot like the Grand National: coveted by many, so finding a good condition one without spending a fortune seems very difficult.

  • avatar
    wsn

    1) R63 is not a wagon. Should pick Mazda 3 wagon instead. They are everywhere.

    2) The choice of Outback is not good either, because there is a Legacy wagon.

    IMO, a wagon should not have any offroad capability, otherwise it’s just an SUV.

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      The Mazda3 is not a wagon either, its a hatch. A case could be made for the Protege5 though! The factory roof racks slide that one more to the wagon side…

      • 0 avatar
        redav

        Both the Mazda3 & Protege5 are half-way between pure wagons & pure hatchbacks. They are shorter than the sedan like a hatchback, but have a D-pillar like a wagon. IMO, they can be called either.

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        Calling that tiny little triangle window area in the Mazda3 a “D-pillar” is stretching it a bit much IMO.

        The D-pillar in the Protege5 leaves a full window, 4 sided, same height as the rear-door window. Look at the profile pics of both, there is way more wagon to the P5 than the M3.

      • 0 avatar
        Tinker

        I had a 1988.5 Mercury Tracer SW that ran until we gave it away to my stepson, who wrecked it in short order. Is that close enough to a Mazda? The only downside to it was a 3-speed auto that kept highway rpm high and droned so loudly you had to shout at 75 mph. The Mazda 323 SW had 4 speeds, of course.

      • 0 avatar

        I own a Protege5. It has the shape of a wagon, but the cargo area of a hatch!

        Best wagon I’ve ever driven: Cadillac CTS-V.

        I also love the Saab 9-5 Aero and Magnum SRT8.

        Best wagon that didn’t quite make it here: Pontiac G8 GXP.

    • 0 avatar
      AoLetsGo

      I liked my Mazda wagon it was a 1989 Mercury Tracer maroon wagon not the ugly hatchback, bought it off the B lot – one year old/5,000 miles/$5,000 that was a good deal. My 2004 Taurus Wagon had rear facing seats, $0 down, two year 30,000 mile lease, $199 a month. I am sure Ford lost big on the residual. I hit a deer in the 24th month with 29,500 miles and just turned it in for Mercury Villager.

    • 0 avatar

      Lies! Re #2. The Outback is still as wagony as wagons can get, despite your silly offroading rule. The Outback walks and talks like a wagon (at least, the last generation as pictured in the article does). It corners quite sharply, has tight handling in general, etc. Don’t punish it for just have a touch more ground clearance added. It was too awesome/weird a combo to deserve that. I own one, and compared to my previous rides (Mazda3 Sport, JGC, Jetta TDI and sometimes my dad’s Accord) it is considerably tighter than the JGC (obvs) and the Jetta (which was a comparative whale), and pretty on par with the Accord. I say if you can be a wagon, yet have the handling of a Japanese sedan and *still* just happen to have 8 inches of ground clearance, you can still be a wagon.

      Unless you’re a current gen Outback. If you are get the #$*% out you bloated blimp you.

  • avatar
    Sinistermisterman

    The best non-standard wagon I have ever seen (and heard) must be the battered, modified Ford Cortina Cosworth known as the ‘Goonybus’ that does the rounds at various fast Ford shows in the UK. It looks like an absolute sh*tbucket, but by god can it move.

    http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af137/fambang/busdrift1.jpg

  • avatar
    Trend-Shifter

    I nominate my two wagons in the top 5:

    1973 Volvo 1800ES & 1984 Audi Avant.

    Copy 7 paste picture link:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/29396384@N05/5412925601/in/photostream/

    • 0 avatar

      The volvo is spectacular. The Audi Avant is nice.

      I’d nominate the Peugeot 404 wagon. Bunch of them here:

      http://tinyurl.com/bqxj8w3

      • 0 avatar
        olddavid

        It’s 1984 and the local Peugeot fanatic has finally had all he can take. I’m young and full of myself, believing there’s nothing worth knowing I don’t already know. He drives into our closed store to look at the turbo K-wagons. I spy him while doing quarterly ordering, and in a Sunday way, beckon him over. He’s a retired FBI agent. He assures me his used 504 diesel wagon is worth $5000 and after he helps me up, asks me to call him when I’m willing to allow said amount. This goes on for 3 months. We hit our bonus units, so with an extra $800 from Dodge, I call him and offer him $3500 total allowance, $2000 ACV. Where were all you fanatics when I needed you? That mistake stared at me for six months. This is a wagon story, right?

      • 0 avatar
        Roberto Esponja

        “and after he helps me up…”

        LOL!

  • avatar
    StaysCrunchy

    Great article! Of course, everybody’s going to have their own opinion on what you should or should not have included, but by and large I agree with yours. Personally I would have found a place for the Dodge Magnum and the Mazda 6 on my “Best” list and the Accord Crosstour on my “Worst” list though.

  • avatar
    phreshone

    Saab 9-5 Sportcombi… handling, great passing power, great seats… 27-30mpg with 5sp auto on the highway @75+, depending on gas

    • 0 avatar
      Buckhead55

      Speaking from personal experience, I can tell you that the 9-5’s crashworthiness also deserves mention. My wife and I were struck head-on in our ’04 wagon, both cars doing about 60 mph. We both survived with no long-term injuries.

  • avatar
    -Nate

    Wow ~ all kids here to – day .

    I grew up with my uncle’s 1931 ‘A’ Model Ford woody wagon then a long line of American Family Trucksters , you had to be there to understand the appeal , yes they rode low but they were tough .

    I could fill pages with fond memories of full size American Wagons , if you wanted a ” small ” Station Wagon , you’d buy a Ford Falcon , Plymouth Valiant or Dodge Dart , maybe a nifty Studebaker with the rear sliding sunshine roof….

    Some years ago a frend die leaving behind he Honda Civic based WagOvan , a nice little rig to be sure , HUGE cargo area once you folded the rear seat down my Lady wanted me to keep it for my Shop Truck as it was air conditioned and got terrific fuel mileage plus of course it was FREE , I had to dump it .

    -Nate

    • 0 avatar
      redmondjp

      Yes to the Wagovan! Replace the Accord wagon with the Civic wagon (1988-91). This is one of the very best vehicles that Honda has ever made IMO. My father-in-law still drives one, now with over 300K miles on it.

  • avatar
    JeffM

    Couldn’t agree more on #2 – I just picked up a lightly-used Outback XT Limited as my ‘winter’ car – awesome vehicle.

  • avatar
    mnm4ever

    I love the SportCross! Sure if factory form the auto kind of kills it, but the stick IS wasn’t anything special either. It is the mods these cars can take that make them special. A 2JZ swap isn’t really any more difficult when you do the 5-sp along with it, and you now have a 4-door 5-seat wagon Supra.

  • avatar
    mike978

    Derek, why did you opt for the Subaru Outback in your top 5 rather than the Legacy wagon? The Outback back in 2006 when I bought my Legacy wagon was just a raised, $1500 more expensive vehicle. The Legacy had the turbo engine available if I recall. So I chose the real thing – the Legacy.

  • avatar
    ReturnofSAM

    Glad to not see a fuel efficient, stylish, turbo, 6 spd Saab 9-3 wagon on the list. Some even had XWD. The hate is still strong with this site.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    No Lancer AWD wagon?
    Mitsubishi Diamante wagon?

    Or am I just stating rare things?

  • avatar
    eggsalad

    Best wagon, Diesel: Mercedes W123 300TD-T

    Best wagon, gasoline: Volvo 245

    Why even consider any others?

    • 0 avatar
      wsn

      If Volvo was ever that good, it wouldn’t have to be sold to Ford and then Geely.

    • 0 avatar
      -Nate

      Why ? because folks all have differing tastes .

      My sweet lady wanted a wagon and wasn’t impressed with the 1959 Rambler Cross Country I found her even though it had all the good options including AC , roof rack and the all important overdrive (we ferry our Foster boys interstate regularly) so , being a confirmed Dieselhead , I hunted up a low mileage European Spec. Mercedes 300TD (W-123) again with just about every possible option , even the 15″ wheels , it’s stylish and *very* practical having the third seat , cargo space is HUGE and it’s easy to park , happily skips across the desert @ 90 MPH and returns an honest 26 + MPG’s on long trips , 24 / 25 MPG’s in town .

      Few people who are not ‘ Car People ‘ realize it’s more than 5 years old .

      My Son’s various Subaru Legacy and WRT wagons (he has three and will be selling a late model one soon cheaply) are also very nice but not really big on hauling capacity .

      -Nate

  • avatar
    YellowDuck

    What was wrong with the CTS-V wagon? I drove the CTS and thought it was pretty nice.

    Anyway, any list like this that leaves off the Volvo 240D is nonsense. Right on with the Roadmaster though.

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    The problem with FWD wagons is too much weight at the non-driving end. We used to have a Tercel wagon. FWD traction was non-existent on even marginally slippery roads. Fortunately, it was a model that could be shifted into 4WD on the fly. It got around pretty well in 4WD.

    We still have a 1998 Legacy GT wagon, not the jacked up Outback. With modern winter tires, getting high centered in deep snow is the only thing that will stop it. Our Legacy just passed 230k miles. Next spring, we will have to replace the original clutch since it’s getting very thin.

  • avatar
    ixim

    1976 Plymouth Fury wagon w/318 V8. Huge, thirsty, with a big enough “back-back” for my kids to hide.

  • avatar
    bunkie

    Wow. What a surprise. Derek hates the CTS-V wagon enough to name it number one on his worst wagons of all time list.

    Frankly, I don’t really care what he thinks about it. The fact that it exists proves that there are people in the world who are not satisfied with what most of what everybody else likes, but who have clear ideas of what they like, people with passion and vision. Long may that continue.

    • 0 avatar
      redav

      If people bought it, you might have a point.

      Having passion & vision is not inherently good. When it gets pointed in the wrong direction, it just makes everything worse.

      • 0 avatar
        bunkie

        Yes, everything is worse because of the CTS-V wagon, See how silly that sounds when put that way?

        I’m not sure, exactly, why Derek has a such a bug about this car. Did it do something to personally offend him?

        At the time I bought my CTS wagon, the V was just not in the budget. But I wanted it, oh yes, I wanted it. And I still do. Few vehicles combine function and fun like this car.

      • 0 avatar
        redav

        “Yes, everything is worse because of the CTS-V wagon, See how silly that sounds when put that way?”

        Not silly at all. Everything *IS* worse when I have to look at it.

        Going in the wrong direction enthusiastically (i.e., passion, vision) is always worse than simply going in the wrong direction unenthusiastically, and going in the wrong direction enthusiastically is always worse than going in the right direction enthusiastically. So why deny that it makes everything worse?

    • 0 avatar
      pg123456789

      The only traditional station wagons that you can buy now are Acura, Cadillac and Mercedes. BMW will hopefully bring back their 3 series wagon. The only one without RWD/AWD is the Acura. The CTS, E series and 3 will have AWD, but the only available manual is the CTS-V. I’m going to ignore the VW Jetta wagons ….. junk!

      • 0 avatar
        graham

        BMW is bringing the new F31 3-Series wagon to the US, but sadly on with an automatic.

        As for the list, I’d add the E91 3-Series wagon (Touring). My 2012 M-Sport E91 is AWD, 6MT and iDrive-free. And it’s still the N52 inline-6, which also unfortunately disappears from the 3-Series with the introduction of the 4-cyl in the new F3x models.

  • avatar
    70Cougar

    The Cressida wagon was a sweet ride in the ’80s. Luxurious (it even had remote stereo controls and a graphic equalizer!), quick for its day, built like a tank, and lots of room compared to its slope backed competition.

    As far as Derek’s Roadmaster selection, I prefer the Vista Cruiser of the same generation.

  • avatar
    SunnyvaleCA

    Several of those vehicles are EPA-certified “Light Trucks.” While saving massive money on gas guzzling fines, shouldn’t they be considered minivans or CUVs instead of station wagons?

    • 0 avatar
      WRohrl

      I’m guessing that Derek, being based in Canada, couldn’t care less about the US EPA and their absurd classification scheme…and rightly so! Now, once he sets foot across the border, then I’m totally with you…

  • avatar
    redav

    “I grew up in wagons, owned a wagon and might be just above the cutoff point where I can remember them dominating the family car segment, rather than crossovers or SUVs.”

    For the US, wagons have not dominated the family car segment since before the minivan was introduced in the mid-80s.

  • avatar
    markholli

    Derek, what ever happened to your Volvo V70 cheap car challenge. Haven’t seen any updates on that in a while. Did you give up on it?

  • avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

    This list doesn’t have the 1987 300TD, therefore it’s wrong.

  • avatar
    Andrew717

    Had a lot of fun in high school in my mom’s Roadmaster wagon. Room for six friends (with seatbelts), more torque than God. We’d drag race crapped out 80’s Mustangs for fun. Good times!

    My mom still regrets selling it, last car she really loved.

  • avatar
    7402

    Volvo 740 Turbo. Elegant, great greenhouse, room for 7 if you had the rear-facing seat in the back, and plenty of power for the era.

    Surely y’all remember the original ad that showed a Ferrari with a U-Haul trailer next to a 740 Turbo Wagon . . . . .

    It is the car I most regret selling, though the 3rd turbocharger in 140,000 miles pushed me over the edge to trade it in on a Honda Odyssey.

    The Volvo 240 Wagon is another iconic wagon.

    +1 on the Mercedes-Benz W123 wagon in any guise. I remember a cross-country road trip in a 300TD that had a dealer-installed extra fuel tank. We fueled up every 1,000 miles or so.

  • avatar
    05lgt

    I have happy memories of a ’72 LTD with the 429.
    I like the look of the 65ish “imperial” wagon
    I hear audi has made a few noteworthy avants
    puegoet 505 turbo diesel blasting up the oakland hills was fun
    anyone know anything about the lexus hybrid wagon?

  • avatar
    Lightspeed

    I’d buy a Lexus Sport-cross in a second. In fact, I think Lexus could score a bit of a coup if they’d bring it back.
    +1 on the Mazda 6 Sport, a very elegant wagon. I looked at a couple and then got the RWD bug.

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      The Lexus is a nice car, but it doesn’t really have the utility to make it a great wagon. It’s sort of like the failure of the CTS wagon. Cadillac apparently read the blogs and thought enthusiasts wanted a wagon for styling reasons, never considering that anyone really cared about the additional capacity and flexibility that a good wagon should provide. I think wagons should have three rows of seats to distinguish them from mere hatchbacks. OTOH, wagons really only work for carrying seven people when the trip is local. People had to pick between room for people or room for luggage. That’s a big reason minivans wiped out their market.

  • avatar
    rdsymmes

    The Mercedes 123 wagon is the best ever. What began as the elitist soccer mom transporter morphed into the practical do-anything beast, to reformed hippie eco diesel, to cult favorite. What a run!! And the one I sold 10 years ago recently resurfaced on Craigslist asking more for it than I got.

  • avatar
    cc-rider

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/30728763@N05/8180843186/

    Here is a shot of my 1995 Mercedes E320 wagon. The car has a 3.6 amg motor along with a fresh suspension rebuild (500e specs). I just picked up a 5 speed swap out of a 1986 300E. It will be pretty awesome when the manual tranny is installed next year.

  • avatar
    SteveMar

    Big wagon lover here. Currently driving a 1996 Volvo 850R – and I have to say, it still has plenty of scoot and fun for an almost 17 year old car. The 850 series cars were generally better assembled than the S70/V70 follow-ups. Mine has had a few expected issues, but, with over 200K miles, it still hauls a– when I hit it and the turbo spools up. The most fun ever driving a load of groceries or yard waste.

    Used to have a 2000 VW Passat wagon with the 5 speed manual. Never had major reliability issues and really enjoyed driving stick with a kid in a car seat. Were it not for some of the overall model’s reliability issues with this car in general (sludge in the turbo, electrical stuff), I would add it to the list.

  • avatar
    James2

    Too bad Ferrari didn’t take a hint from that beautiful 456 instead of building the FF. While the FF is probably less of an apparent sacrilege, if you’ve got to build a “friends or family-friendly” Ferrari, why not tack on a pair of rear doors. As with Porsche, the purists will complain but the 1-Percent will open up their wallets gladly.

  • avatar
    rickyc

    Let’s call it what it really is The R class is a “minivan”, the E63 in wagon form is a true wagon. Can’t believe they left off the E61 BMW M5.

  • avatar
    bumpy ii

    How did we get this far without mentioning the Stagea 260RS? GT-R in a wagon? Yes!

    • 0 avatar
      luvmyv8

      Ah yes, pretty much a Skyline GT-R wagon, complete with the RB26DETT and ATTESA ETS Pro AWD.

      Speaking of speedy wagons, didn’t Oldsmobile offer the Vista Cruiser with a W-30 package?

  • avatar
    corntrollio

    How has no one mentioned the M550d?

  • avatar

    SRt8 Magnum

    Why o Why won’t they make a 392 Wagon?

  • avatar
    Kevin Jaeger

    My family hauler was a ’99 Passat 1.8 Turbo wagon with a 5 speed. It delivered excellent highway fuel economy, something pretty important for family travelling, while still being a pretty engaging vehicle to drive.

  • avatar
    raph

    My favorite wagons are the fox based units from Ford, light weight and if you ever wanted a supercharged 32 valve V8 wagon with an IRS backed by a 6 speed manual and weighing less than 4000 pounds by gosh all you have to do is raid the parts bin.

  • avatar
    mkirk

    77 Corolla wagon…Because I came home from the hospital and spent the next 10 years riding around in one dammit!

  • avatar
    wstarvingteacher

    Admit to being older than dirt but my favorite was the 77 Impala wagon that was HD everything with 350/350 and a 4 bbl. Terrific road car with enough road rash that the shiny cars never messed with me on my 100 mile commute. Then there was the 57 2 door post wagon (a 210) that I drove till gas hit $4/gal and may again as I still have it. 283 with a glide.

    The trouble with lists like this is that you need to make them era specific. I can remember lots of cars from when I was a kid that were (in my mind ) cooler than yours. But they were less practical, less dependable and probably less other things too. I just remember them as cool.

  • avatar
    MRF 95 T-Bird

    64-67 Olds Vista Cruiser was always tops for me as well as it’s Buick Special cousin. 68-72 are nice as well but a bit large.

    Why no mention of the Jaguar X-Type estate? The only Jag wagon offered in the states sadly only available with auto but it is AWD. I know it does not get much love since it is based on the Ford Mondeo but you can find them at Subaru prices.

  • avatar
    bill mcgee

    Always been a wagon fan , first car I bought myself was a Squareback , owned a Falcon wagon , Saturn wagon, Corolla wagon , all with sticks . Of your favorites the one I piloted most was a Roadmaster wagon that a woman I worked for owned . Occasionally , I would be sent out of town in it on some errand . The lady was a fast driver and expected me to be too. Once I remember being sent to meet some guy out of town , about 150 miles away. ” And you have to be there at 1:30 ! ” As I left the shop in Houston I quickly calculated I’d have to drive 95 miles an hour to get there in time . I was a little late when I met the guy in some parking lot , but later I calculated that I had driven the Roadmaster an average of 89 mph including stopping to take a leak . My own personal favorite wagon is perhaps the coolest car the old man ever bought , a 1960 Bonneville Safari wagon , in a wonderful color combo ( to my 7 year old eyes ) of acid green metallic with avocado morrokide and a roof rack . First car we got with factory air . Unfortunately Mom wrecked it after a relatively short period of time . Next car was a major step down .

  • avatar
    Metacomet

    Sorry Derek

    I’ve been driving the most awesome car ever built in America for a year now

    The Cadillac CTS-V wagon is without peer

    Not sure how you can come up with that list of random iron that you prefer, but not a single one of them is worthy of mention in the same column as my Caddy wagon…

  • avatar
    BobAsh

    Sorry, Derek, but naming Ford Granada one of the worst wagons ever, based on the fact that the one you were driven in broke down, is piece of really bad journalism. You obviously know nothing about the car, probably have never driven it, and yet you have so strong opinion about it.

    Ford Granada was, in fact, pretty interesting fact. Similarly to the Capri, which was shrinked and refined Mustang, this was shrinked and refined fullsize US wagon. But instead of body-on-frame and live rear axle, it got independent suspension in the rear, unibody with sub-frame mounted suspension and near perfect suspension. It was nearly as spacious as CrownVic, while being about a yard shorter, much better in corners and with 2.8i engine, probably even faster in the straight line…

  • avatar

    I suspect that Derek doesn’t like the CTS-V wagon because in some ways it was a cynical attempt to pander to a small coterie of automotive journalists. The way I look at it is that it was a no-brainer, they only had to sell a handful to break even on the project, what with the CTS-V coupe and sedan already in production, and they got a ton of publicity. Makes more sense to me than giving Justin Bieber a free CTS-V coupe for West Coast Customs to defile.

    There was a time when Cadillacs and Lincolns and big Chryslers were the fastest cars on the road. They were “setting the pace” to quote Hot Rod Lincoln. So I don’t have a problem with high performance Cadillacs. Sure, making a special model just so they could bestow “long term test cars” upon favored writers has an unpleasant odor to it, but it’s hardly the worst thing a car company has done.

    • 0 avatar
      pg123456789

      If it wasn’t for the journalists, we wouldn’t have such special vehicles like the CTS-V wagon. It’s a statement car. And regular people can also buy it!

      • 0 avatar
        Metacomet

        I’m a regular person and I bought one

        …about half the price of the Benz wagon that can keep up with it, and the same price as the CTS-V coupe or sedan

        …and a whole back end for stuff, while blowing the doors off of most everything built anywhere

      • 0 avatar
        Quentin

        The CTS wagon deserves to be on the naughty list because it isn’t a very good wagon. While being a huge vehicle, it still manages to not have very much cargo space (12 cu.ft less than the CR-V, a compact CUV). The rear seats don’t recline or slide. The rear visibility is terrible thanks to the massive D pillar. The styling is also awkward and forced. It was a token.

        FWIW, most wagons based on RWD sedans are pretty poor in cargo space, IMO. Give me a big, square, SUV/CUV type cargo area, dammit.

      • 0 avatar
        Metacomet

        Tell ya what quentin, since I don’t have any idea which econobox SUV you drive, I’ll not comment on the styling which I am sure is poetic in your eye..

        ..as for me, my caddy, the back seats fold forward which is of more value to me as I have a house to sleep in

        …and I can see out of the car and it goes like rocket and stops on a dime

        ..I am sure what you drive fits your needs

      • 0 avatar
        Quentin

        I don’t drive an econobox CUV and I also have a house. The SUV pictured in my avatar is a 4Runner. Don’t worry, I can afford a CTS-V, too. I just think it would be a supremely stupid use of my money considering I’m hoping to have my house paid off by 33. So, now that we have the “you’re poor, you obviously cannot understand the greatness that is the CTS-V wagon” out of the way, I was saying that the wagon potion of the styling was forced. The rest of the CTS is a nice looking car. That D pillar region is a mess, though. For as big of a car that it is, I expected more utility. Then again, I prefer driving more normal cars as a daily driver and having a small, light, fun weekend toy versus one car that tries to do everything. Different strokes.

      • 0 avatar
        Metacomet

        Better post

        Still, I would have the courtesy in a post not to heavily criticize the ride of the guy who just posted that he had one and liked it

        Matter of fact I traded from an SUV to get into the wagon because of ride, handling, and my appreciation of the “forced” styling..not that I know what that means

        ..and I am not sure how you get that it is a big car

        Do you consider all CTS models big?

        They all ride on the same chassis

        ..and it actually does provide all the utility I need, but I guess that’s why they make different cars

        And

      • 0 avatar
        Metacomet

        Better post

        Still, I would have the courtesy in a post not to heavily criticize the ride of the guy who just posted that he had one and liked it

        Matter of fact I traded from an SUV to get into the wagon because of ride, handling, and my appreciation of the “forced” styling..not that I know what that means

        ..and I am not sure how you get that it is a big car

        Do you consider all CTS models big?

        They all ride on the same chassis

        ..and it actually does provide all the utility I need, but I guess that’s why they make different cars

        And finally, it’s old fashioned, but I do make it a point to buy domestic manufacturers offerings..

        Protracted economic decline and all that nonsense…

      • 0 avatar
        Quentin

        I do think that the CTS is a large vehicle. I would call it a big midsize, slotting between a BMW 3 Series and a 5 Series erring to the side of the 5. It has a large footprint and a 4000lbs+ curb weight.

        I think you jumped on my “isn’t a very good wagon” and interpreted that as “isn’t a very good car”. There is a very clear difference and it is a matter of perspective. If someone was telling me that they wanted a CTS-V, I’d likely recommend the wagon out of the sedan, coupe, or wagon. If someone said they wanted a wagon, I would not recommend the CTS wagon. Looking at it strictly as a wagon and the traits that wagons should have the CTS wagon is lacking, IMO. It was a 2 box design shoved onto a 3 box vehicle.

        When I’m in my utility mindframe, I’m impressed with vehicles that offer lots of space without taking up a lot of space. That is good wagon engineering. For example, the Legacy 2.5GT wagon that the US only got for the 05-06 model years was a good wagon. It was smaller than the CTS in H, L, and W but still had 7 more cu. ft in the rear. That was a car that was thought through from the beginning as “I’m going to be a station wagon”. It would have been better with sliding and reclining rear seats, but that was 05, and those things weren’t terribly common at the time. I don’t think that wagon was the plan from the beginning with the CTS. If you said “I want a balls fast vehicle that I can toss some tallish items in the back occasionally”, the CTS-V wagon is unparalleled.

      • 0 avatar
        Metacomet

        “I want a balls fast vehicle that I can toss some tallish items in the back occasionally”, the CTS-V wagon is unparalleled.”

        Exactly

        …and at a shade over 4.0 seconds, 0-60

  • avatar
    joe_thousandaire

    No Dodge Magnum? C’mon; big V8’s, available AWD. Like the roadmaster on steroids.

  • avatar
    punkybrewstershubby aka Troy D.

    Going by sheer number of units sold the Taurus and Sable wagons win hands down. We love our 2004 Taurus wagon with the “S” aka Duratec 3.0 engine. It seats seven if a few of the seven are small and at 125K is still serving us well!

  • avatar
    Leatherneck

    We own and drive daily a 94 Honda Accord EX wagon – manual transmission thank you – with just 76,000 miles. Great little car. I will agree with earlier comments that the noise level is a little on the high side compared with newer cars. It’s relatively quick with the VTEC and 5 speed.

  • avatar
    -Nate

    As an alternative to regular old Station Wagons , is my 1980 Caddy S & S Victoria Hearse ……..

    It has the famous Caddy 345 engine , this is just a 500 C.I. V-8 that’s under bored so it’s fairly good on fuel .

    Robust construction and blind side panels make it like a Sedan Delivery but being a hearse means it’s fully upholstered inside and has the nifty swing open rear door instead of a tailgate .

    It gets up to 15 MPG’s on regular fuel and has very good AC and decent road manners now that it has gas shocks and good Michelien radial LT tires on it .

    -Nate

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      I’m not familiar with the famous Cadillac 345 engine. Wouldn’t it have a 368?

      • 0 avatar
        -Nate

        DUH ! you’re prolly correct , I musta been thinking of my son’s 1967 Buick GS Coupe….

        Sorry .

        O do recall this was the last carburated engine from Caddy , it runs great .

        TH400 tranny , 150,000 miles and after giving it a good cleaning , service and seal job , it’s working perfectly still .

        We used it as a Camper in our Desert trips , Death valley and so on…

        -Nate

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        That was the last good Cadillac engine. It is a shame that in 1981 they ruined it with the cylinder shut down system. Then they built engines that were practically Vega V8s, followed by the Deathstars. Now there are no Cadillac engines. Since the last good one was introduced in 1968, I suppose that doesn’t hurt their chance at success.

  • avatar
    windsormarxist

    Okay- here’s my list- (based on my personal experiences)

    1. Volvo 245- the car that is what a 5 year old would draw when asked to draw a wagon. Besides- from Testament to Threads the Day After, it defined what car you want when the world ends.

    2. Dodge Caravan/Plymouth Voyager- this redefined the wagon as something capable of carrying 7 adults in comfort while being far less dangerous to drive than say a full size van. If you’ve ever ridden in the rear ‘jump seats’ of a wagon as an adult, you’ll appreciate what the Mopar boys were doing.

    3. Mk1/2 Taurus and Sable- These gave the dad of the family something to drive that didn’t make him look like a dweeb. Also appreciated by 16 year olds (like me) who didn’t have to look a fool in a wood panelled minivan when borrowing the car.

    4. Saab 99/900 Turbo- okay- not a wagon exactly, but the combi-coupe was able to provide sports car like performance with sedan comfort and estate practicality. Indeed, because the tailgate opens so widely, you can actually fit a bigger load into the hole of the Saab than the vertical portal of the Volvo. Plus, and this is a big plus- Toppola made a slide-in camper for the Saab, thereby making this the most versatile car- sports car, wagon, luxury car AND RV!

  • avatar
    -Nate

    RE : Poo-JOE Wagons :

    Yes it is an appropriate story .

    My father bought a brandy new Peugot Diesel wagon in 198? when he moved from L.A. to Hawaii , the Diesels were not Ca. allowed at the time so he had to buy it in Canada and have it shipped to Hawaii , much hilarity for everyone but him ensued .

    He loved it and replaced the tailgate three times as it kept rusting out .

    When he moved back to The mainland (Short Hills , New Jersey of all places) he left it behind but brought his Dodge Caravan minivan home then to Wa. State when he moved across America to retire ….

    Peugot’s are O.K. cars , rather ‘ different ‘ ~ I worked for an indie Peugot garage in the 1970’s and we’d bought a couple new ones in the 1960’s and 70’s .

    FWIW , the older you get , the more one realizes just how little they know .

    -Nate

    He (I forgot whom) Wrote ;
    It’s 1984 and the local Peugeot fanatic has finally had all he can take. I’m young and full of myself, believing there’s nothing worth knowing I don’t already know. He drives into our closed store to look at the turbo K-wagons. I spy him while doing quarterly ordering, and in a Sunday way, beckon him over. He’s a retired FBI agent. He assures me his used 504 diesel wagon is worth $5000 and after he helps me up, asks me to call him when I’m willing to allow said amount. This goes on for 3 months. We hit our bonus units, so with an extra $800 from Dodge, I call him and offer him $3500 total allowance, $2000 ACV. Where were all you fanatics when I needed you? That mistake stared at me for six months. This is a wagon story, right?

  • avatar
    olddavid

    I cannot leave this topic. My best memories of youngsterism involve station wagons. We took in a late 50’s hardtop wagon at my Father’s store in the mid 60’s. I thought it was the coolest looking ride I’d ever seen with four doors. Would not sell. The more things change……..

  • avatar
    jimmyy

    My top 5:

    Accord Wagon.

    Mid to late 1960s Country Squire … so cool around Southern California beaches when topped with surf boards.

    BMW 5 Wagons from the 90s.

    MBZ 3 Wagons from the 90s.

    Very late 80s Colony Park wagons … will be cool around Southern California beaches in another 10 or so years, with the surf boards.

    FYI … almost pulled the trigger on this gem, but decided to share it with the TTAC community instead. A 30,000 mile 84 Ford Wagon …

    autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=92625&endYear=1984&showcaseOwnerId=553498&startYear=1984&
    makeCode1=FORD&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&sellerTypes=b&
    maxMileage=45000&searchRadius=0&bodyStyleCodes=WAGON&mmt=%
    5BFORD%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=334940060&listingIndex=1&Log=0

  • avatar
    ICARFAN

    Grew up with some neighbors that had a 77-78 AMC Matador station wagon in some aweful seafoam green color and I swear that it was the base for the family truckster in Vacation. They bought it new……

  • avatar
    bill mcgee

    My uncle was a small town Pontiac dealer . He had a 1949 Pontiac wagon , the very last one of the woodies before they switched to the metal version mid-year . He sold it new , and then took it back in as a trade-in on a new car , sold it again as a used car and repeated the process another two times , then it became my aunt’s car in the latter part of the fifties and she kept it until 1970 . It was a light mint green color with the straight eight and the three speed stick . Even as a kid I knew it was special , and it seemed huge , like riding in a tank . Great car for the beach , we’d use it as a tailgate car for cookouts .

  • avatar
    Towncar

    I guess doug-g is right about cowboy convertibles–I’ve only seen one, but it’s a ’62 Catalina, and boy, is it cowboy.

    It was Webb Pierce’s, and it’s at the Country Music Hall of Fame:

    http://images.travelpod.com/tw_slides/ta00/9e7/5e8/country-music-hall-of-fame-look-for-the-guns-n9-nashville.jpg

    http://wheelingit.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/201009-sept-country-music-hall-of-fame-nashville-28-jpg2.jpg

    http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5093/5423051529_7c5dba91e4_z.jpg

  • avatar
    Scout_Number_4

    I knew it wouldn’t be here, but all this wagon talk made me nostalgic for the giant hunk of steel I learned to drive in, my folks ’67 Ford Country Sedan (? that badge always bothered me…it’s a station wagon, not a sedan!). Didn’t have luggage rack, third row seat or infamous wood panels, but did have a whole lot of power with the 390V8 and that really cool 2-way tailgate and manual-crank rear window. It was quite legendary among my school buddies for being an excellent “sleeper” car plus I could carry the whole gang…I think I once transported 15 people to a theater. My Dad kept it for his daily driver (3 miles each way) until the early 90’s and finally sold it for a hundred bucks.

  • avatar
    dolorean

    1978 – 1979 Firebird Kammback Station Wagon. Pininfarina design. Big block V8. The cachique of being on an episode of Rockford Files (sorry, no ‘Rockfords’ were done in the Kammback). Derek you disappoint me by not listing it at the very least as an asterisk.

    “http://wqik.net/kammback/index.html”

  • avatar
    bill mcgee

    IIRC the Kammback had sort of a split window effect , with cargo accessed the two curved side windows , which swung up . Handsome looking car . A missed opportunity .


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