By on October 9, 2012

No, this isn’t another lame rumor-mongering post based on idle speculation; Toyota’s own Tetsuya Tada, chief engineer for the 86, confirmed to Top Gear that two more sports cars are in the pipeline.

According to Tada, the two new products will book-end the 86 at both the lower and higher priced segments.

“The first is more mass-market and cheaper than the 86,” Tada revealed. “And the third is more upmarket than the 86.”

Tada says that he is still “conceptualizing” the cars, which is considered the start of a five year process. The only detail that can be confirmed is that the larger car apparently won’t be a hybrid.

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39 Comments on “Toyota Engineer Reveals Plans For More Sports Cars...”


  • avatar
    JMII

    Is one named Celica and the other Supra?

  • avatar
    NormSV650

    Is the 86/BRZ twins really considered sports cars? Isn’t like the slowest RWD sporty car, barely beating a FWD GTi around a race course?

  • avatar
    Crabspirits

    Supplement every quote with “…..in Japan.”

  • avatar
    jco

    “more mass-market and cheaper” – is it wrong that I’m hoping that means a bigger cabin with 4 real seats and a simple twin-cam 4 cylinder/manual trans rwd combo? you know, like the old Corolla, or something. or even the Celica.

  • avatar
    L'avventura

    I think they’ve already shown these two cars via Gazoo. Which is Akio’s pet project company. They tested the FRS and LFA before it was released, so its a good indicator of what sports cars Toyota is testing.

    “mass-market and cheaper”:
    RWD Hothatch:
    http://gazoo.com/racing/english/grmn/carlist/cardetail_frhh.asp

    “upmarket”:
    And the Porsche 918/NSX-like Hybrid car(MR layout with engine driving the rear-wheels and electric motors driving the front):
    http://gazoo.com/racing/english/grmn/carlist/cardetail_shc2.asp

    The MR2 variant in particular they have shown lots variations of. Supposedly its not an MR2 chassis but a completely new one that holds the V6. The original was a 3.2L V6 that’s been upgraded to a 3.5L with 400hp combined.

    • 0 avatar
      mr_muttonchops

      The first one looks like a slight stretched Aygo, which I’m totally okay with since the Aygo Crazy was really interesting.

    • 0 avatar
      juicy sushi

      That RWD hot hatch concept predates the FR-S/86 and was being toyed with at the same time. At this point, it looks like it was put back on the shelf, unless it’s going to be the basis of Tada’s cheap car.

      I won’t complain if it is, but it’s about half a decade-old, with these cars a few years out, meaning that it might not point the way…

      • 0 avatar
        L'avventura

        The FRS started as the FT86, which was first shown in 2009 in concept form. The test mules that were in the Impreza body for the FT86 first started appearing well before that.

        That FR hot hatch concept dates back to 2010. So its significantly after the FT86 program.

        As discussed in the original article, cars take 5 years to be developed. If we take that FR hothatch as an early test mule, it would be 2015 before its released. Which would make sense.

        Naruse, before his death, talked about his desire for building both cars. He said that 1.4 million yen was his target and that he wanted the car to be like the KP51 Starlet.

        A hothatch is really the only possibility to be both lower-cost and mass-market than the current FRS.

  • avatar
    tatracitroensaab

    Wasn’t the FR-S already designed to be as cheap as possible while still being good? I’m trying to imagine what a cheaper FR-S would look like. Also, while I will be excited to see the results of this, I can’t help but think that this is a poor business move. Low end sports cars don’t sell very well – young people have no money for new cars, and the used market is too good. I guess these are meant to serve as halo vehicles, but the Prius and the LFA already do that….

    • 0 avatar
      NMGOM

      tatracitroensaab….

      A “cheaper” FR-S could be made by doing the following:
      1) Design without back seats, i.e., go for pure coupe;
      2) Drop the special Subaru flat 4, and go with standard in-line 4 cylinder;
      3) (and here is what would be tragic)…go with FWD to eliminate RWD components.

      The last item, would, of course, no longer constitute a true “sports car”, and result in more of a truncated 2-seater “hot hatch”.

      But, yes, cheaper things could be done….

      ————-

      • 0 avatar
        ranwhenparked

        I could see the first two, but the third one would be a major, major re-engineering of an already existing platform, which would not be an inexpensive undertaking.

      • 0 avatar
        NMGOM

        ranwhenparked…

        Yup. The first two would be the easy, inexpensive modifications that do not require a large revision in platform. The last one could be done only with a “half-platform” mod that “glues” the front end of an already existing, amortized Toyota car (say, a Corolla) onto the rear of the current design. Not cheap to do in any case. But would there be a market for this mixed-character vehicle? I have my doubts….

        (BTW: Pure “cheap” is not always the best policy even in developing countries: In India, for example, unlike what was projected, the Tata Nano is not sweeping the market. People there, even with lower or modest incomes, are going for the usual Japanese cars just like everybody else.)

        ————–

    • 0 avatar
      racer-esq.

      Below is what the cheaper FR-S would be. Basically a Yaris coupe with the engine
      turned longitudinal.

      http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1008_toyota_hot_hatch_concept_morphing_into_coupe/viewall.html

      I would definitely consider it as a daily driver. On the other hand, from a business
      perspective, I can easily afford an FR-S, I just don’t like spending a lot of money on
      cars, so it would likely be cannibalization of a more expensive car.

      However, I might buy a Genesis Coupe Turbo or Mustang over an FR-S, but
      I might by a $15 – 17,000 smaller Toyota coupe over a Genesis Coupe or Mustang, so
      this car might help Toyota win me over from a competitor.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    1. The kings of “beige” are building more sports cars. 2. Sports Car: Thinking you could be an F1 driver cause your car handles so good and you look down and see you’re 25 MPH. Yeah, that’s good.

    • 0 avatar
      NMGOM

      Well, el scotto….

      Just think about how safe you’ll be running into something at 25 mph. Yeah, that’s good. (^_^)..

      ————

      • 0 avatar
        Lynchenstein

        The original Miata was pretty slow too. But it felt like you were going fast which is one of the reasons it was so much fun!

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        No worries mate, anyone who has a Z4 as his avatar gets it. I was going to make a smart ass comment like I’m sure British Leyland put some crumpled leaves and broke up twigs in the padding for crash safety.

    • 0 avatar
      JuniperBug

      “The kings of ‘beige’” have a not-insignificant history of building great sports cars, so I don’t know what your problem is there.

      A car that is fun and involving within normal street speeds so you can have fun more of the time without breaking the law sounds like a great thing for everyone, so I don’t know what your problem is there, either. I went from an 11 second sport bike to a 16 second Miata for that reason, and smile every time I drive down to the store, or for a lapping night at the track. Not everyone needs their ride to be a penis extension.

      Do you leave the house every morning with a frown on your face or is today just a bad day?

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        I didn’t mean to confuse you. What part of my 2nd comment didn’t you understand? I said having fun at 25 MPH is good. I’ve an MGB, MG Midget, and a Miata. I said nothing about illegal speeds or penis extensions. Toyota used to make great sports cars and lost their way. I don’t know when the last MR2 was built. Nope, I’m normally a cheerful guy, with enough caffeine.

      • 0 avatar
        NMGOM

        Oooops, el scotto…

        I think I owe you an apology. I (and apparently some others) thought you were being sarcastic.
        Sorry….
        Yeah, traveling 25mph down the street and having visions of an F1 race at Spa really IS a good thing!

        ————–

      • 0 avatar
        NMGOM

        JuniperBug…

        Ahem. At my age, extensions of any type are more than welcome…(^_^)..

        ———–

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        I thought he was being sarcastic as well. And, I might add, with good reason. Today’s cars can achieve some pretty high speeds without really feeling very fast. After driving my friend’s SS Camaro for a few days, I found myself ripping through my favorite curves at pretty high speeds, yet it just didn’t feel that way. Contrast going to the same curves in my 1995 car, I was going slower, yet felt faster and in fact, it was more fun and more engaging. While not much for bragging rights, sometimes slower, but more engaging lightweight cars can be more fun even if the time slips don’t show it.

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        My apologies to all who think I was being sarcastic. Not being sarcastic here, I miss the way MGs smelled. A kinda oily, mechanical bits are in motion here with a hint of mildew odor.

      • 0 avatar
        Les

        Would asking for overall fast, but engaging at slow speeds, be too ambitious?

        Is it really a choice between ‘buttock-clenching each time you merge onto the highway’ and ‘going over 100 and feel like your standing still’?

  • avatar
    stuki

    Make one of them a purpose designed ‘vert.

  • avatar

    I like the current sports car, but if they want my money, they need to give it more headroom and a bigger greenhouse better visibility front and sides.

  • avatar
    Les

    The impression I get from reading reviews on the 86 twins seems to be Toyota handed off a set of problems (RWD ‘sporty’ car, small, meets new and projected regs, low center of gravity) to their engineers and just let them geek-out a bit too much without consideration for what the end result will look and feel like to the end user. Could the new sport(y) cars proposed in the pipe fall into the same trap?


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