By on June 2, 2012

This is the list of America’s best-selling cars and trucks of may and year-to-date.

Rank Brand Nameplate May ’12 May ’11 YoY YTD ’12 YTD ’11 YoY
1 FORD F series      54,836     42,399 29%   246,116      214,461 15%
2 TOYOTA Camry      39,571     18,830 110%   181,796      126,094 44%
3 CHEVROLET Silverado      34,555     28,409 22%   160,942      150,206 7%
4 HONDA Civic      33,490     18,341 83%   135,082      110,086 23%
5 TOYOTA Corolla/Matrix      31,847     16,985 88%   125,079      117,875 6%
6 HONDA Accord      29,737     17,018 75%   126,254      111,393 13%
7 CHEVROLET Malibu      29,579     25,600 16%   110,035        99,046 11%
8 FORD Fusion      26,857     24,666 9%   112,416      110,878 1%
9 RAM Ram      26,040     20,117 29%   114,630        90,536 27%
10 HONDA CR-V      25,186     16,307 54%   123,400        95,423 29%
11 FORD Focus      24,769     22,303 11%   110,237        76,639 44%
12 FORD Escape      23,077     23,140 0%     98,667      100,333 -2%
13 NISSAN Altima      22,690     25,525 -11%   135,289      112,308 21%
14 TOYOTA Prius      21,477       6,924 210%   107,504        62,180 73%
15 HYUNDAI Sonata      20,765     22,754 -9%     96,481        96,370 0%
16 CHEVROLET Equinox      20,238     17,587 15%     90,097        77,884 16%
17 CHEVROLET Cruze      19,613     22,711 -14%  94,901        98,076 -3%
18 TOYOTA RAV4      19,248       8,624 123%     74,309        64,050 16%
19 HYUNDAI Elantra      18,877     20,006 -6%     80,114        83,309 -4%
20 CHEVROLET Impala      15,879     16,707 -5% 81,221        87,319 -7%
21 FORD Explorer      15,538     13,318 17%     63,269        55,401 14%
22 VOLKSWAGEN Jetta      15,175     16,671 -9%     69,599        74,647 -7%
23 TOYOTA Sienna      14,606       8,618 70%     48,257        45,678 6%
24 JEEP Wrangler      14,454     10,008 44%     56,410        41,946 35%
25 KIA Optima      13,364       7,431 80%     59,765        29,518 103%
26 JEEP Grand Cherokee      13,274       9,484 40%     62,611        45,401 38%
27 CHRYSLER 200      13,250       7,098 87%     58,231        25,252 131%
28 GMC Sierra      13,196     10,753 23%     60,466        55,221 10%
29 DODGE Grand Caravan      12,418       9,427 32%     58,063        46,148 26%
30 HONDA Odyssey      12,348       9,428 31%     50,481        45,734 10%
31 TOYOTA Tacoma      12,269       9,091 35%     55,289        44,764 24%
32 NISSAN Rogue      11,977       6,962 72%     60,839        50,418 21%
33 FORD Edge      11,749       9,486 24%     55,177        50,291 10%
34 TOYOTA Highlander      11,657       5,755 103%     47,065        40,605 16%
35 KIA Sorento      11,077     11,936 -7%     46,698        51,765 -10%
36 HONDA Pilot      10,749       8,560 26%     44,917        42,583 6%
37 DODGE Avenger      10,682       5,543 93%     43,458        24,868 75%
38 LEXUS RX      10,647       5,847 82%     35,376        34,697 2%
39 FORD E-series van      10,550       8,386 26%     42,098        39,372 7%
40 FORD Mustang      10,427       6,607 58%     38,361        30,206 27%

 

 

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81 Comments on “American Top 40, May 2011, Trucks And Cars...”


  • avatar
    raph

    Sweet, Mustang made the top 40 list, that money they used to bribe the Robb Report and get the Boss in there was well spent!

    • 0 avatar
      MrWhopee

      For all the brouhaha the Hyundai Sonata is only #15. Ten spaces below the friggin ancient, long in the tooth Toyota Corolla, for heaven’s sake. Much ado about nothing?

      • 0 avatar
        strafer

        Shows you that past reputation matters with sheeple.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        No, no, no, the Corolla is the most awesomest toaster on wheels money can buy. That’s why ‘mericans buy them. They don’t care about 4-speed transmissions, horsepower, old engine technology, interiors with the charm of a Coleman cooler and that fall apart, or even middling fuel economy within its class. It’s says Corolla baby, that means its reliable so I’m buying me one.

        It is awesomeness on wheels.

      • 0 avatar
        tekdemon

        @strafer
        Past reputation matters because it’s surprisingly good at predicting the future: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2011-hyundai-sonata-se-20t-test-long-term-review

        Yeah, they look pretty but 15 years down the line my money would be on the boring ass Toyota.

      • 0 avatar
        DubTee1480

        Also, isn’t the Sonata constrained by supply issues? As in the factory is at capacity and they can’t build more than they already are? Something I thought I read here previously.

        I’m amused that Toyota can get away with what they do regarding the Corolla. What with all the griping about the ancient W-body, GM’s pushrod engines, the Panther platform and, until recently, the use of 4 speed transmissions by a few domestics. It is reliable and cheap, but so are other cars with far more attractive packaging.

      • 0 avatar
        Steven Lang

        Not quite.

        If you combine the Optima with the Sonata, Hyundai is second in sales in the midsized segment for FY2012.

      • 0 avatar
        xj220

        I think Hyundai in general has a huge supply concern. If you looked at the fastest selling vehicles in terms of least number of days sitting in the lot…Hyundai/Kia has 6 of the 15 fastest selling vehicles in May 2012.

        “Hyundai-Kia had a banner month — six Movers, with big sellers like the Hyundai Sonata sedan and Kia’s Optima sedan and Sorento SUV taking fewer than 20 days to sell. So why did the Korean automaker’s sales increase rank last among the Big Seven in May? Inventory could be to blame. Hyundai and Kia dealers kicked off the month with less than half the cars in stock versus the rest of the industry, according to Automotive News.”

  • avatar
    mjz

    Hey Bertel:

    How about splitting the sales data by market segments, i.e., compact cars, CUV’s etc. You could do a couple of segments per day. This was always pretty interesting to see who the players are in each segment, plus which models are real duds.

  • avatar
    kars

    the new cheapie vw jetta seems to be dropping off already – won’t be good for their ambitious sales plans in the US

    • 0 avatar
      FromaBuick6

      Probably has something to do with the new Passat, which has a nicer interior and doesn’t cost a whole lot more. No Passat was available last year, unless you count the cramped, pricy CC, and that likely contributed to the Jetta’s strong numbers last year.

      Or maybe they dialed back the fleet numbers. There’s an embarrassing number of Two Point Slow rentals running around. Doubt it, though.

    • 0 avatar
      pdog

      The drop off might also be because the 2013s are out very soon, and will include some upgrades.

      Not sure how much the target audience pays attention to 4-wheel discs or adjustable armrests, however, since plenty of folks seem to love the Corolla.

      • 0 avatar
        mike978

        I wouldn`t have thought the drop off was people waiting for the 2013. Most would be unaware that anything significant was going to change. I would say a big issue for the Jetta is fuel economy. It gets between 31 and 34mpg for highway (gas engine). This is poor compared to the rest of the compact market. The only other manufacturer last year that was as bad was Mazda with the 3 and they for 2012 improved to the “golden” 40mpg. VW needs a gas powered Jetta that gets close to 40mpg.

  • avatar
    carguy

    Both Honda and Toyota are working hard to maintain the momentum of the Civic and Corolla but seem to be doing so via steep discounts. Edmunds TMV on both is now below invoice while the competition seems to be faring a little better.

  • avatar
    FromaBuick6

    The year-over-year Honda and Toyota numbers have to be pretty depressing for all the domestic fanboys who kept claiming that they weren’t going to fully regain their pre-tsunami market share.

    Almost 40k Camrys, I’m not surprised. That car is everywhere. Meanwhile the Sonata has stagnated. Boring sells. Ford’s going to learn that the hard way with the new Fusion and Escape.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      I don’t own any myself, but I know old Air Force buds I retired with way back in ’85 who still drive their ’87, ’88, and ’89 Camry sedans.

      That doesn’t mean they don’t own brand new cars and trucks. They do own new ones too. They just can’t bear getting rid of the old Camry, because it still runs good and in many cases it has survived hand-me-downs to kids and grand kids.

      Now that I’m a convert to Toyota, I can see why they are so loyal. Our 2008 Japan-built Highlander with over $80K on the clock has never been in for repair or warranty work, ever. I can’t say that about any of my domestic brand cars and trucks.

    • 0 avatar
      mike978

      Fromabuick – No wonder the Camry is everywhere when I can get a 2012 SE for $199 (as advertised on this site) or when on Edmunds I can get an extra $750 above any other discount on a Camry.

      Toyota has got back its sales volume it had but their profit margins must have taken a hit since they are incentivizing much more now than previously.

      I agree with the statement boring sells so I expect the Escape and Fusion to have a hard time – although the Focus is doing OK compared to previous years for the nameplate. For the Sonata isn`t that as other have said supply constrained as it regularly has the quickest days to turn. If that is the case then you wouldn`t expect much YoY growth.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        “For the Sonata isn`t that as other have said supply constrained as it regularly has the quickest days to turn.”

        That was my impression as well, ever since Hyundai has gotten its collective act together and word has started to get around that the Sonata is a ‘sweet’ car now.

        My wife’s Avon lady recently traded her Camry for a Sonata. If Sonata can appeal to 70-somethings, imagine how it appeals to the other age groups. If Hyundai could make more, they’d sell more.

      • 0 avatar
        goldtownpe

        If the Sonata is supply constrained, then so is the Camry. Accord to newcars.com, Sonata “Days on the lot” for Apr was 36 days. Camry was 34 days.

        http://www.newcars.com/hyundai/sonata/2012

        http://www.newcars.com/toyota/camry/2012

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        ……..Fromabuick – No wonder the Camry is everywhere when I can get a 2012 SE for $199 (as advertised on this site) or when on Edmunds I can get an extra $750 above any other discount on a Camry….

        I’ve noticed lease deals come roaring back in the past year. I am assuming this is due to high residuals from the inflated used car market. Some cars with good reputations (whether the current product is worthy of that reputation is irrelevant) have remarkably good deals.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “Toyota has got back its sales volume it had but their profit margins must have taken a hit since they are incentivizing much more now than previously.”

        Incentives, April 2011 / April 2012

        Toyota (brand): $1856 / $1360 (reduction: $496 / 27%)
        Toyota (company): $1730 / $1374 (reduction: $356/ 21%)

        Chevrolet: $2919/ $3324 (increase: $405/ 14%)
        GM: $3015 / $3339 (increase: $324/ 11%)

        Industry: $2109 / $2055 (reduction: $54/ 3%)

        http://www.edmunds.com/industry-center/data/true-cost-of-incentives-by-manufacturer.html

        Pretty much the opposite of what you’re claiming.

        - Toyota incentives are both below the industry average and are falling faster than the industry average.
        -GM incentives are well above industry average, and are increasing while the industry average is flat to declining.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    Wait, this list is only for May – the YTD data is all over the place.

  • avatar
    Volt 230

    Wow Fiesta has been such a failure for Ford, I think it’s time to re-think the whole thing

    • 0 avatar
      28-cars-later

      I agree, I can’t understand its whole segment, the cars are way too small.

    • 0 avatar
      SV

      The Fiesta’s facing a lot of cannibalization from the Focus, which has more discounts. Also last year Fiesta sales were a bit inflated because Focus inventories were quite low. For its segment, the Fiesta’s still selling well.

      • 0 avatar
        NulloModo

        The problem with most of the subcompact class is that the mileage virtually is identical to what you can get in a roomier, more comfortable, more powerful compact, and the price isn’t that far off.

        In Europe the subcompact vehicles may get more attention just because of narrower roads and more urban drivers. Here, there is no real downside to moving up to a C segment vehicle.

        The B segment cars are still important if for no other reason than they attract a lot of first time buyers for whom the couple thousand difference in price to move up to a compact actually makes a difference. The Fiesta has done well for Ford by bringing in a lot of first time Ford owners who will be more likely to buy larger Ford vehicles as their needs and income change.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        “The problem with most of the subcompact class is that the mileage virtually is identical to what you can get in a roomier, more comfortable, more powerful compact,”

        The EPA mileage rating is one thing, but if you live in a mountainous area, hauling that extra weight up hills impacts real world mileage.

      • 0 avatar

        Far for me to disagree with Nullo about anything Ford, but one thing I noticed in particular about Europe is how all sorts of minivehicles like Ford kA coexist with completely normal cars like BMV 5xx. American-size cars have no trouble navigating “narrow” European roads at all. I think it’s taxes that suppress decently sized cars in Europe, not roads.

      • 0 avatar
        NulloModo

        Pete –

        That does make more sense.

  • avatar
    Volt 230

    Wait, there is more, as I look over the list, I don’t see one single subcompact there. Not even when gas was $4 in most places.

  • avatar
    eggsalad

    I wonder how Ford gets away with calling “F-series” a single model anymore.

    The F-150 and 250+ models are now completely different trucks. Sure, back in the day it was all the same, but not anymore.

    I think they just call it a single “model” to keep the sales title.

    • 0 avatar
      DubTee1480

      That does seem to figure heavily into their ads. I think I’ve seen (in the past) that when you breakout F-150 through F-350 sales from the entire line and compare them the the equivalent Silverado and Sierra models combined that the GM models outsell the Ford models. I forgot how high up Ford counts as F-Series but I think it’s something like F-750.

    • 0 avatar
      NulloModo

      The F-450 – F-750 aren’t volume models. The 450 is dually only, and the 550 is basically a fleet only model (it comes from the factory as cab and chassis only, no bed). The F-650 and F-750 YTD are only about 2,700 units. GM includes the HD verions of the Silverado and Sierra in their totals as well (GM just doesn’t build anything to compete with the F-450).

      Combined F-Series has a nearly 25,000 unit lead over combined Silverado and Sierra YTD – even if you took out the 450-750 trucks it would still be commanding lead.

      • 0 avatar
        DubTee1480

        Sorry, I did say “in the past”…. this was a few years ago, quite possibly before the crash. Some figures I saw somewhere. It’s not surprising that Ford is outselling GM, they have the newest product and both GM and Fords full-size offerings have always sold pretty strongly. I’ve noticed that no two truck makers ever release new product the same year. I’m not in the market for a new truck but I would probably looks pretty hard as an Ecoboost F-150 if I was. From 93-03 (or thereabouts) I would have picked a Silverado over the F-150, but I didn’t care for the angular grill on the newer Silverados and I really don’t care for the current Silverado. I guess even with the frame differences I personally feel that only the 150/1500-350/3500 variants should be counted and not because of any advantage it might give GM a few months out of the year or the occasional year here and there. That just seems to be the limit at which the private/commercial break occurs. The 450s (and I guess what previously would have been Topkicks?) should be broken out and counted separately.

      • 0 avatar
        NulloModo

        There’s not a ton of difference between the F-350 and F-450. The 450 is optimized for towing and has a shorter rear axle, while the 350 has a slightly larger payload limit. The 450 is dually only, 4×4 only, and diesel only, while you can get the 350 in single or dual rear wheels, in 2wd or 4wd, and with the gas or diesel engine. The 450 is basically a maxed out 350 with a few other upgrades. The 550 is still on the same chassis but is targeted towards commercial buyers.

        The 650 and 750 are on the medium duty chassis and offer the commercial Cummins engines, they don’t really share much of anything with the 150-550.

      • 0 avatar
        DubTee1480

        I didn’t realize the 350 and 450 were so closely related. I don’t recall ever seeing or at least realizing I was seeing a 450 in the wild.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      The same way Toyota gets away calling a Prius C the same thing as a Prius and counting the Corolla/Matrix together (however GM never counted the Cobalt/HHR as one which is a fair 1:1 example).

      They just count them that way.

      I look at the F-150 number and think to myself that Ford is still very dependent on fullsize truck sales to pay the bills.

  • avatar
    28-cars-later

    Grand Cherokee up 38%
    Wrangler up 35%

    the kicker is
    200 up 131%

    Wow.

    JGC was revamped but I wasn’t aware of any changes to Wrangler and the 200 literally was a re-skinned Sebring. How were they able to pull this off so quickly with two of those three models essentially not changing? Was it just raw Sergio charisma?

    • 0 avatar
      iNeon

      Sebring wasn’t bad, it was simply a little undercooked. The 200 is a fantastic little car at a great price.

      It also doesn’t hurt that it’s one of the few bulbous cars available right now– a lot of cars went square in their last redesigns.

      I wonder how much it helps for a manufacturer to alternate square with round every other refresh cycle? Toyota has been doing it for about 20 years now.

      • 0 avatar
        28-cars-later

        I never liked the looks 06+ Sebring it was quite ugly compared to its predecessor. The current version, while much more refined, is still more of the same, yet it succeeds. So the trick is to change to outside just a bit ever few years without changing the platform and the buying public is fooled?

      • 0 avatar
        iNeon

        Yes, the trick to successful carbuilding is fooling the public with new fabrics, carpets and fixtures in the same old cheap-to-build chassis. It has worked well for Toyota.

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        Remember the Sebring was pretty damn poor, especially on the inside, so I am not surprised to see a big jump. Kind of like cutting your golf score…the first 10 come much easier than the next…

    • 0 avatar

      No idea what’s up with Wrangler, except that it’s cannibalizing Liberty ever since the 4D came to market. The latest bump may have something with Pentastar improving the fuel mileage quite dramatically (from abismal to mediocre).

    • 0 avatar
      AJ

      The 2012 Wrangler sales change is due to that the Pentastar V6 replaced the previous minivan motor, which was laughed at in the Jeep community as a replacement for the most awesome 4.0 I6 (in the TJ).

  • avatar
    threeer

    The takeaway from this: boring sells

    • 0 avatar
      NMGOM

      Absolutely, “threeer”…

      Just as “Volt 230″ discovered that there were no subcompacts on the list, here is another discovery:

      There is only ONE German brand on that list: VW, and then only the new Jetta, which is declining in sales, as “kars” mentioned.
      No Audi’s, BMW’s, Porsche’s, or Mercedes’. None. Zero. Nada. (I wonder if adding all of them together, called “German Brands”, would be high enough in sales to make it on the list?)

      So, do we Americans really appreciate quality and performance when it comes to putting our money down? Are we really impressed by outstanding fit-and-finish, newest technology, beautiful design, superior materials/craftsmanship, and great handling?

      It seems that we talk a good fight (about wanting all those things), but do we fight a good fight? And if we do want a little bit of “upscale”, then we go Asian. No wonder GM and Chrysler almost went under. I hope they both learned from that, and will do MUCH better with vehicle attributes now.

      ———-

      BTW:
      1) Thank God, the Mustang made it. It’s the only semi sporty car on the list, and Chevy Camaro is nowhere to be found, despite its reportedly comparable performance.
      2) I think the GMC Sierra numbers should be lumped in with the Chevy Silverado numbers: they are truly the same vehicle. Especially if Ford can call everything on wheels with a box in the back an “F-series”.

      ————-

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        This data is only for the month of May (aka Camaro vs Mustang)

        Camaro sold 9,023 units in the month of May and has sold 40,574 units in 2012 so far.

        http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/gmcom/investor/2012/0601Deliveries.pdf

        The Mustang has sold 38K units year to date, so lags behind the Camaro in total sales.

        Additionally the Mustang has cash on the hood, even the 2013.

        http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/pricing/

        The Camaro does not (at least in my region for both). In my region, a check on TrueCar indicated that Camaros are selling for above sticker. The offer of 1.9% financing on the Camaro is weak; I can get a better rate right now through USAA.

        I don’t care to enter the debate on which one is better – but the Camaro is outselling the Mustang for 2012 and doing it without rebates. That’s all.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        Silverados and Sierras may run down the same assembly line, but they’re different brands. Even when combined, the F-Series almost always outsells them by at least 10%. F-450s and F-550s only amount to about 5% Of F-Series.

        F-650s and F-750s aren’t counted in F-Series totals because they run down a different line. RAM also counts their 4500s and 5500s in their truck totals.

        GM and RAM don’t break down their 1/2 ton sales vs. 3/4 and up, so it would be pointless to have F-150 totals. The take rate of domestic (big 3) half tons is about 80% vs. heavies.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        “So, do we Americans really appreciate quality and performance when it comes to putting our money down?”

        Yes we do, which is why we buy Japanese cars. They’re the best cars sold in Germany and the UK too, but people don’t buy them there because they don’t care as much about quality and performance as we do.

        Here’s the German TUV’s inspection compilation of cars 2 through 11 years old: http://www.theautoindustrieblog.com/2011/01/toyota-and-mazda-are-most-reliable-cars.html The only German car that is a consistent contender on the list is the 911, primarily because they do the fewest miles of any car on the list. Who is best? Toyota, just like in the US.

        In the UK, 8 of the 10 most reliable cars are Japanese and the other two are Korean. People that say that European cars are reliable in Europe don’t know what they’re talking about. http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2011/7/28/far-eastern-car-brands-top-reliability-survey/40236/
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8665332/European-cars-still-less-reliable-than-Japanese-counterparts.html

      • 0 avatar
        mike978

        CJ – you are correct in as far as it goes. No-one who is serious doubts that the two biggest Japanese companies make more reliable cars than American or European auto companies. However when the absolute rate of issues is looked at rather than a relative scale the difference is not so great.

        For example lets take the 2009 and 2010 Ford Focus vs Toyota Corolla – both old models so well advanced in their model years and should be towards the peak of reliability. We get from Truedelta the following number of trips per 100 cars (number of cars in survey were comparable with between 25 and 50).

        2009 Focus – 35
        2009 Corolla – 24
        2010 Focus – 28
        2010 Corolla – 12

        In both years the Focus was less reliable than the Corolla by around a factor of 2. However this only equates to 1 extra trip for the Focus owner over the next 6-8 years compared to the Corolla owner. For a lot of people I would have thought that was no big deal.

        You are correct people in Europe do not “care” as much about reliability as those in the US but really you could just say they consider other variables to be important as well like performance, driving dynamics, interior quality and styling. If people considered the Focus superior on say most of those then the relative lack of reliability (but still reasonably reliable in an absolute sense) would be an understandable choice.

        You obviously understand this point because you leased an Audi rather than a Honda or Toyota. Obviously variables other than reliability were important to you.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        You’ve chosen a domestic example that was fairly ancient when produced. See how the 2011 Focus compares to the 2012 Civic, since they’re both new models. Also look at how cars perform over the course of 10 years, rather than just in the first couple. Most cars should be very good in year 2, as any delivery issues should be dealt with and nothing should be worn out. Looking at the TUV reports, French cars have real durability issues no matter how you want to spin it. They couldn’t cut it here for good reasons, but they still sell in Europe…

        My business partner and I did lease an Audi A6. NFW I would have bought it rather than renting it. It already greets me each time I drive it with giant exclamation points and flashing warnings about low tire pressure, something that has been checked numerous times and already involved a trip to the dealer. It also says check all tires, apparently not sophisticated enough to know which tire it incorrectly thinks is low. 6,000 miles down, 30,000 to go and already more headaches than our 2004 Acura TSX and 2007 Honda Civic Si have combined for. The 2012 Honda CR-V is off to a rough start because the delivering dealer in Virginia put the state inspection sticker directly over the climate control’s light meter.

      • 0 avatar
        mike978

        OK CJ – lets take another example although the Corolla and Focus are both big selling compacts so it was fair to take them. Lets compare the “new” Civic with the new Cruze since these are both new and meet your criteria! Sample size between 21 and 48.

        2012 Cruze – 18
        2012 Civic – 17
        2011 Cruze – 32
        2011 Civic – 27
        2010 Civic – 13
        2009 Civic – 15
        (Just so you don’t quibble about the cars chosen I also looked at the Jetta and apart from the 2012 having a bad start the 2007-2011 2.5′s all had below 50).

        Being generous again to Honda/Toyota fans I would say the Cruze is upto 2 times less reliable than the Civic. To some people the Cruze’s apparently better refinement and styling may be worth the extra trip every 6 years. Again absolute reliability vs relative.

        I completely agree with your point about 10 years. That is the true test and time will tell. But the first few years should give us some clues because if a car is truly terrible, very badly assembled or has other major issues it should show up in the first few years and several tens of thousands of miles.

        I also agree with you about French cars (I had a Peugeot 306 – great to drive but..) however in the UK (which you cited) they make up a small amount of the market. Renault recently cut their range in half in the UK due to sale issues. That is beside the larger point.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        I just see a Daewoo when I look at the Cruze, so I don’t get the better styling claim. Neither is a home run this time around. The Civic is roomier, more efficient on the road in most trims, equally quick to the turbo Cruzes and faster than the less expensive 1.8 liter ones. The ride and handling of the Civic are better too. More textures of plastic in the interior isn’t a metric I’ve ever measured cars by, but a Ford Expedition I rented clearly indicated that some people do. I don’t see refinement in the Cruze or its combination of attributes. Has it finished better than dead last in a comparison test?

      • 0 avatar
        mike978

        CJ -you missed the point. I am not advocating buying either car – I personally wouldn’t. What I am saying is that just because one car is upto twice as reliable (although both still reliable – albeit from just two years of data- in an absolute sense) doesn`t mean other variables cannot be taken into account.
        Now you see a Daewoo. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Others don`t see that or don`t care and they are entitled to that although you get angry with them for it.
        The Cruze from reviews I have read is quieter and more refined than the Civic. That matters to some people. As for size, looking at the specs on truedelta both are comparable with both having 94.6 cu ft of interior space.
        Again I don`t want this to become car A vs car B. It is the philosophical point about relative vs absolute reliability and the inclusion of other variable in the buying decision.
        One last point I can imagine what you would say if the Cruze (or Focus) had to go back for a refresh one year after being launched as an all new car. Again shades of grey – no one company is all bad OR all good.

      • 0 avatar
        NMGOM

        To “APaGttH”..

        You’re right. But what I think you meant was that the data table is SORTED for rank by the sales data ONLY in the month of May, since obviously the Year-to-Date data are included in the 3 right-hand columns as well. Your observation on how the table works is important.

        If the the table were sorted by 2012 YTD (with the May data being incidental), then the Camaro would have been #39; the Lexus RX would not have been on it at tall; and the Mustang would be (as it is now), #40.

        —————

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        The key point:

        Just because car 1 is more reliable than car 2 doesn’t mean that car 2 is an unreliable car.

        Nor do all car buyers buy a vehicle so they can drive the wheels off of it. For those buyers, yes, a Civic or Corolla would probably be a better choice. Others might value styling, handling / performance, features, or price. Personally, there’s no way I’d buy a Civic or Corolla – they’re dull to drive, and dull to look at. I’ll trade a bit of long-term uber-reliability for a little bit of short term fun, as long as the short term reliability is acceptable, and not necessarily perfect.

      • 0 avatar
        raph

        @ APaGttH – Mustang defintely needs the MY15 car. I’m a big fan of the S-197, but its been a little to long in the tooth, almost 10 years now and in this segment fresh is everything.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        @NMGOM

        Nope. The primary sort of the list is the Top 40 sellers for May of 2012.

        There are several models that are a Top 40 seller for May, but not a Top 40 seller year to date; you would need two different lists to sort the data.

        Case in point, the Mustang would not crack the Top 40 list year to date, not even close.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        CJinSD writes:

        …You’ve chosen a domestic example that was fairly ancient when produced. See how the 2011 Focus compares to the 2012 Civic, since they’re both new models…

        The 2012 Civic is about as “all new” as the 2011 Corolla was.

        Lets see 2012 Civic. Same engine? Check. Same transmission? Check. Basically the same interior? Check. Same chassis? Check. There is very little “new” in a 2012 Civic – now who is cherry picking data – comparing an ancient chassis with a truly all new top to bottom offering.

    • 0 avatar
      jimmyy

      The takeaway from this: long term durability and reliability sells ( 10+ year reliability ).

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    OK, here is one I’m surprised not to see on the list – the Kia Soul. I thought they sold about 10K a month.

  • avatar
    jimmyy

    Lessons here:

    1) Most people what the most reliable and durable vehicle available, and Toyota / Honda own this market segment. This trend has been extended due to our long term economic problems. The recent Consumer Report exposing reliability problems in every Detroit brand did some real damage. High level Detroit executives should fire those responsible at every company.

    2) If a Toyota / Honda product costs about the same as a Detroit vehicle, people view the Toyota / Honda as cheaper because they last much longer. Divide the purchase price by expected mileage at the junk yard for the real cost of ownership per mile.

    3) Any warranty trip really upsets large swaths of the buying public. Myself, I even find the oil change as something I hate.

    4) In the past, some people ( me included ), would purchase a Detroit vehicle from time to time even though they exhibit resale, reliability, and durability problems. Many of these patriotic buyers were disgusted with the massive government bailout which lined the pockets of UAW pension / healthcare ( and even salaried pension ) plans. I am in this camp, and I will never purchase another Detroit vehicle, even if some miracle occurs where they are able to build a product as good as the Japanese. Detroit owes the taxpayer an apology or these buyers are gone for good.

    5) The Detroit trick of trying to differentiate themselves with useless technology and styling gimics was a FAIL. Fact is Detroit is trying to increase the price you pay for their vehicle with gimics in order to continue to cover excessive labor and benefit costs. Detroit missed an opportunity. When the bankruptcy occurred, the companies should have been restructured to kill all the defined beneifit plans, cut wages, cut healthcare, then product a low cost highly reliable vehicle. The current capital structure of the Detroit auto industry excludes the ability to generate decent profit margins with a value oriented product. FAIL. The arrogance of Detroit: trying to push overpriced, over gimmicked, under reliable products on the public while they continue to overpay and overbenefit union workers while the government launches a bogus recall attack on Toyota. Disgusting.

    6) If you hate socialism being pushed by Democrats, buy Japanese. Democratic politics entered the auto industry in 2008, and it has ruined Detroit forever. Some of Detroit’s best buyers were Republicans that are turning their back.

    • 0 avatar
      golden2husky

      Has anybody seen the bridge? Where’s that confounded bridge…

      • 0 avatar
        Patrickj

        I’ve been wondering lately how people with such bitterness can manage to get through the day. Especially with large quantities of guns and ammo close at hand…

      • 0 avatar
        mike978

        Agreed – there do seem to be several very angry people who frequent this site.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        Are angry and honest now synonymous?

      • 0 avatar
        mike978

        CJ – no.
        Also someone can be honest and accurate without being angry or hateful. People who may disagree with you (even slightly) aren`t necessarily enemies or unpatriotic. You don`t have to wish people you don`t like a painful death etc. Plenty of people on this site express different opinions and their version of the truth and don`t get overwhelmed by spite.

        I would also like to nail the lie that every single one of Toyota 10 million plus recalls in the past few years was because of the Government. My Sienna, which I believe is one of the few Toyota vehicles not have been hit by UIA, had two valid recalls. If you think the possibility of the spare tire rack rusting out and dropping the tire on the road is a Government conspiracy then I feel sorry for you. I accept some were bogus but many other recalls were not. Toyota themselves admitted they had some quality issues as a result of expanding too quickly and have set in motion plans to set that right. Good for them. A shame others seem to see the world in black or white – where some companies never do anything right and others never do anything wrong. The world is gray usually.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        Patrickj was the one that injected violent hatred into this discussion. The only thing I see Jimmyy saying he hates is having maintenance performed on his cars. There is nothing outrageous or even particularly ambiguous in his post. The vitriol it provokes is because it captures a bunch of very uncomfortable truths. ‘The world is grey’ is a mechanism for dismissing real merit and justifying real trespasses.

      • 0 avatar
        mike978

        Actually CJ my comment was about people like you. I added to the comment written because it was relevant but my comment was about people who frequent this site, not necessarily this post. You have said in quite a few of your posts in the past how you want person X to die and to die horribly or that person Y is an enemy etc. I would spend time finding them if a) the search tool was better and b) if I didn`t have better things to do when my 3 daughters wake up from nap.

        It is not my job to defend patrick’s comments, he writes what he likes as do we all. Jimmy’s points were clear and reasoned. Again no argument from me.

        I agree with you in part that some things are absolute truths. But you must also agree that you can speak the truth without being objectionable in how you speak it. Also not everything is an absolute truth.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      @Jimmyy:
      “Democratic politics entered the auto industry in 2008, and it has ruined Detroit forever. Some of Detroit’s best buyers were Republicans that are turning their back.”

      Uh…the president in 2008 was the well known liberal Democrat George W. Bush. He was the one who started using TARP funds for auto bailouts. Obama continued the policy. So much for the bailouts being a political payback for the UAW – if Bush had considered this as a political move, he’d have refused to do the bailouts to screw over the UAW once and for all. But he didn’t Why? Because – follow along closely, now, children – BAILING OUT GM AND CHRYSLER SAVED JOBS. Bush got that. Too bad his fellow GOP travelers today don’t.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        If this is really something you care about FreedMike, you’ve had quite a while to learn how it really occurred.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/us/politics/11auto.html?pagewanted=all
        http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2008/11/bush_ill_trade.html

        Bush made a deal with the devil, but it was the devil’s deal all along.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Repeat after me:

        The bailout saved jobs…period.

        GM and Chrysler were gone without the bailout, and they’d have probably taken the economy down with them.

        Conservatives are inordinately concerned whether the jobs saved in the bailout were union jobs or not. I don’t care. All I see is people earning a living that wouldn’t be without the bailout. As someone who was out of work for a long time in 2008, I see nothing but good coming from that.

        In fact, the overwhelming majority of jobs saved by the 2008 bailouts weren’t in the automotive sector – they were in finance and banking, and that sector of the economy is notoriously anti-union. That, plus the fact that the bailouts were begun by someone who was no friend to the unions, puts the lie to the “the bailouts were a payback to the UAW” garbage.

        Nor do “conservatives” seem to mind that one of their sacred spending cows – defense – involves pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into products built by union laborers (many of whom belong to the UAW, matter of fact).

        Union workers building defense products: good…
        Union workers building consumer products: bad, bad, bad…

        Bush acted to save the economy. He acted wisely. I give him 100% credit for doing so, and I’m a liberal Democrat. Then again, I’n intellectually honest, and I’m not afraid to say that someone who I disagree with politically made the right call. Perhaps your side could try the same, versus standing on ideological “truths” like “laissez-faire is the way to go” that would have laid waste to the economy.

        (Naaaaaah….lot more fun to speculate if Obama was born in the U.S. or not, or whether he’s a communist or not, or whether he uses a teleprompter too much, and on and on and on and on…)

      • 0 avatar
        nrd515

        Don’t confuse him with reality.

    • 0 avatar
      nrd515

      I was waiting for the “socialism” to pop up and there it was. LOL, Obama is only a tiny bit to the left of Reagan in most respects, as the Republican party has swung hard right. Too far right for me, sorry. Joe the plumber isn’t someone I’d ever vote for. Blaming the union for Detroit’s issues is just plain whacky. Some of their activities didn’t help, but the main issues with Detroit was they designed and made crappy cars. Quality control on the line wasn’t the main problem. I’ve had three in a row now that were pretty much perfect, and all three of them were domestic, over gimmicked (What exactly does that mean, BTW? I’ve personally seen no gimmick in a domestic that wasn’t in a Japanese vehicle too)and all.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        Love it or hate it, Obama will be re-elected for four more years. There aren’t enough voters who will get behind Romney to vote out Obama. As an Independent I don’t care for either Obama or Romney.

        Obama was duly elected by the majority. He won fair and square. America got exactly what it deserves. Those who don’t want to pay for Obama’s policies can always quit their jobs and go on welfare or join the 99′rs.

        I doubt there will be much of a voter turnout this year, except for the political fanatics each voting for their candidate. For most of us one candidate is as bad as the other.

  • avatar
    gslippy

    To meet President Obama’s ridiculous goal of having 1 million EVs on America’s roads by 2015, all EV sales would have to add up and place around #15 on the list with 20k or so sales.

    Volt, Leaf, and i-MiEV sales totalled less than 3000 in May, and that’s with $4 gas.

    But I still like the Leaf.

    • 0 avatar
      mike978

      You forgot to include Prius plug-ins. Agreed it will not get anywhere near 1 million by 2015 but then again weren’t we supposed to get to Mars by 2020? I take these statements/aspirations with a pinch of salt.

  • avatar
    JMII

    Who keeps buying those F-series trucks? Seriously… doesn’t every landscaping company, plumber and dude who has a jetski already owe a truck? Every time I see the F-series at the top of these list I just can’t believe how many Ford sells even with $4 a gallon gas.

    Jeep Wranlger sales are impressive, I always think of it as (an overpriced) niche vehicle yet it selling better then mini-vans and popular CUVs.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      New trucks depreciate much faster than older trucks and that’s a tax write off that landscapers and tradesmen love. If your truck is your office, you want the very best. When your entire operation is based on 4 wheels, you need a truck that’s 100% reliable.

      To everyone else, trucks are today’s muscle cars with a 6′ bed, for the price of Camcordtimas. Around 20 MPG hwy is worth it not to drive an appliance.


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