By on April 30, 2012
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The nice people at BEST Motoring have produced another one of their entertaining pseudo-races. This one features the GT86/BRZ twins vs. the current Miata. It can be watched and enjoyed solely on its own merits. If that isn’t enough, and you want to hear some thoughts regarding the setup of the race, the performance of the respective vehicles, and the showmanship involved, click the jump.

The finishing order and best laps:

Toyota GT-86 – 1:46.0
Subaru BR-Z – 1:47.1
MX-5 Fabric Top – 1:48.6

Now for the observations:

  • This test was rigged to favor the Miata. Not in the obvious sense of putting the Miata P1 on the grid, although that was done, but in the sense of having the Miata driver turning the fastest, most careful laps. The guys driving the twins (one of which is noted drifter Keiichi Tsuchiya) are goofing around and throwing time away — most obviously in Lap 3 where Tsuchiya is screwing around to make the finish closer. The Miata driver is putting his head down and hitting his marks. It’s safe to assume that the true gap between the twins and the MX-5 is more than the 2.6 seconds per lap shown in the video. The Jalopnik commenters who are frantically typing “OMFG TEH MIATA IS LIKE SO CLOSE DESPITE HAVING NO POWER LOL ITZ TEH BEST” are failing to understand this.
  • Obviously the twins are identical. Tsuchiya had the inside line and never gives up the advantage from there. Don’t freak out. The lap time differences are entirely due to showboating and the fact that the BR-Z had to make the pass on the Miata in a tougher spot.
  • The twins won’t drift. Yes, they will slide a bit, but when the Drift King himself can’t get the GT-86 more than a bit sideways despite having an open track and a free hand to do so, that doesn’t augur well for suburban hoons. Luckily, it doesn’t really matter.
  • Nor are they particularly quick. Those digital speedometers are in kph, which means that these cars can barely break 100mph around the track. Raw speed isn’t the focus, obviously. Still, it’s worth remembering that these cars will be easy meat for V-6 ponycars… even on a racetrack. Understand?
  • I want to go race in Japan. Obviously these guys are goofing around, but… they drive around with their hands on the shifter like they are in a reboot of the American Graffiti franchise, they steer approximately, they wander back and forth on the track, they coast 100 feet on neutral throttle on every entry… I remind you that Ralf Schumacher won a lot of Formula events in Japan.

Watching this video doesn’t do a single thing to dull my desire to own a Scion FR-S. If anything, the sheer fun everyone is having is quite infectious. My application to be one of the “First 86″ was denied, but maybe I should go have it out with the local Toyota dealer anyway. It’s what Gan-San, who is sadly missing from this video and who would have given all these pups a solid thrashing, would do.

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76 Comments on “This Is The Analysis Of The Video That Jalopnik Also Just Showed You...”


  • avatar
    lzaffuto

    I am *very* anxiously awaiting your review of this car, Jack. I think it is going to be epic.

  • avatar
    hgrunt

    Thanks for the analysis. I saw this on Autoblog last night. Half the comments were people saying the MX5 was the greatest car evar, failing to note that it posted the lowest lap time and started 3 positions ahead.

    I remember hearing or reading somewhere that these shows typically use privately-owned vehicles. Not sure how much that’d affect how they drove the cars, versus if it was one of their own own, or a press car.

  • avatar

    “oops, wrong time to play, gotta stay first…” ROFL. Thanks, Jack. Still, what about Kamui though? Think he’d give Ralf trouble?

  • avatar
    carlisimo

    As a Miata driver I’d love to join in the “greatest car EVAR” stuff, but the stock suspension is way too soft for it to be competitive.

  • avatar
    grzydj

    This is the first time I’ve ever read “Ralf Schumacher” and “won” in the same sentence.

    Motor Trend recent drove the FR-S and also let Randy Probst drive it, and he really enjoyed it as well. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to embed videos on TTAC.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPoZ1SC8uwk&

    or search Youtube for v=tPoZ1SC8uwk&

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      There’s something hilarious about MT relying on Randy to drive the cars. They’re basically saying, “f*** it, nobody on our entire staff is qualified to hold up the tail end of a regional autocross, let’s hire the job out and misquote the guy when he’s done talking!”

      • 0 avatar
        Spencer Williams

        Maybe they do misquote him, I’m not sure. But I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with a company trying to get technical, informed info by hiring someone who’s really qualified to provide it. The shame of admitting you’re not a great driver is probably outweighed by having the best driver feedback of any site.

      • 0 avatar
        Jack Baruth

        Arguably, to be in this business, you should probably either be a great writer, a great driver, or a passable combination of both. MT would do well to hire some writers as well as some drivers, then the staff can focus on attending Mercedes-Benz events on the Coats of Zur or whatever it’s called.

      • 0 avatar
        Spencer Williams

        Good point. I didn’t take into account all the driving that is done off-site where they don’t use them. So I’d say it’s great they have them when they can use him, but when they can’t, yes, they should be able to drive well.

  • avatar
    jco

    was it just me, or was there a marked difference in the volume of engine noise in the 86 over the BRZ? maybe they were mic’d differently..

  • avatar
    segfault

    I think I heard one of the GT86/BRZ drivers say “turbo.”

  • avatar
    Ex Radio Operator

    How can there be a point to something as pointless as this little exersize? Are these cars main competition going to be the Miata? I drive a Miata and would not trade my 20 year old BRG for either one of them.

    • 0 avatar
      replica

      I’m equally confused. Miatas are cheaper as well.

      Compare the FR-S to something more likely, V6 Mustang? Wait. No, it would MURDER the FR-S and be cheaper too.

    • 0 avatar
      hakata

      It’s silly Japanese variety show entertainment. No point beyond that. The Miata is very likely the competition. The price is within $1500. Guys who want a battle axe will get a pony car and a sticker of Calvin peeing on an FRS. Guys who want a scalpel have this, the RX-8 (not any more) and the Miata. They will lose every stoplight race and won’t care.

      • 0 avatar
        replica

        Don’t look up the handling figures for the V6 Stang…

      • 0 avatar
        rpn453

        Handling figures? What should he look for there; how grippy its tires are on a skidpad? How enjoyable it is to steer a car can’t easily be measured.

        Car and Driver tried though, and had these criticisms of the GT version in their “Best Handling Car for Less than $40k” feature:

        “The electrically assisted rack won’t even deliver to the driver a smoke signal, much less timely communication of events transpiring in the sticky P Zero rubber. It feels too much like a video-game dial. Cayman Dynamics’ steering-effort results backed our impressions, as the Mustang wheel was the lightest in hand by a large margin and had roughly the same effort at 0.50 g of ­lateral load that it had at 0.88 g . . . And feel-free steering — combined with the coupe’s substantial size (longest and widest of the group) and high beltline — makes accurately placing the car on a country road or nailing a blind apex like Grattan’s Turn 11 very tough. If you don’t care about the experience, however, and lap times are your end-all be-all, look no further.”

        But they still scored it third of six, behind the Miata and Evo, and even complemented some important handling characteristics:

        “Besides the well-sorted suspension and hi-po engine, that blistering lap time and top-half finish can be attributed to the pricey P Zeros (part of the $1695 Brembo brake package that helped return the shortest stopping distance — 154 feet), a very effective limited-slip differential, brake balance that makes this Ford the test’s friendliest trail-braker, and a neutral chassis balance matched in subjective impressions only by the lighter and smaller Miata. If only the steering response and ergonomics lived up to rest of  the car’s greatness.”

        Still, they seem to agree with hakata’s sentiments.

  • avatar
    stottpie

    i have driven this car. i will say that if you are on the fence, or think you’re interested in this car, or you love the idea of a small sports car, there’s really no question or debate to be had. you’re going to enjoy driving this car. it feels fast despite being low on power, and i think with some wider/stickier tires it would be a complete beast on a smaller track.

    the seats are incredible, the shifter is incredible, the clutch is weighted perfectly, the throttle response is instant, the engine note is fantastic, the visibility far exceeds the competition, the […] you get the point.

  • avatar
    phillymiata

    I think some of the disappoint in the performance might come from the overhype. Car performance envelope has increased quite a bit from 2006 when the latest Miata came out. This thing is more like a RWD Acura RSX. Not slow but not fast.

    Jack is right, a V6 pony car will eat this thing up. It just doesn’t have the legs.

    • 0 avatar
      replica

      The disappointment hit when the pricing came out. 165whp in a 2,700lb car? That was pretty cool, back in 1990. I know the power isn’t the point, but at that price, it’s a problem.

      Something tells me the hype will make the average car guy will overlook that power deficit since it’s just going to be used to hang cambered, oversized wheels on and get hella flush yo.

  • avatar
    Toucan

    > Still, it’s worth remembering that these cars will be easy
    > meat for V-6 ponycars… even on a racetrack. Understand?

    Every time I hear these bold statements I recall the Smoking Tire review of the Camaro SS which… got its bottom handed to it by the VW Golf GTI on a slow, tricky circuit: youtube.com/watch?v=xuIR2pEGiMs

    The 400+ HP muscle car was unable to beat the 200HP front wheel drive hatchback.

    The problem is most of the so called “racetracks” are in fact a set of very long straighs joint together by easy, smoothly-surfaced, constant-everything, repetitive corners which only vary in direction and, sometimes, in radius. Not much skills necessary to be fast there. It’s more like drag racing with occasional change of drag direction.

    The real racetracks have elevation, camber, surface and corner radius changes all over the place. Like the Nürburgring. That’s where true virtues of a car:
    – ability to put the power down under difficult (and changing!) conditions
    – balance under abrupt changes of load, braking and propulsion forces
    – steering feedback and ratio off center
    – midrange power and gearing
    – throttle response
    – driver skill
    – …
    can be evaluated and compared. None of which matters much on the first type of tracks.

    This is the place where the real winner is to be found. And if it rains, that’s even better.

    The real racing is much closer to rallying.

    • 0 avatar
      unseensightz

      The smokingtire review of the Camaro was a complete joke. Even if you leave out the weight disadvantage the Camaro has to the GTI, that track they used was completely unsuitable for any car bigger than the GTI, especially the Camaro. When you have a car with tidy dimensions and a track that matches those tidy dimensions, of course it is going to beat anything larger. But take the GTI and the Camaro, especially the latest one with new adjustments borrowed from the ZL1, out onto the Nurburgring which you admit is a technical track rather than straights connected by turns, and the Camaro would whoop the GTI all day every day.

      So I would put my money on the V-6 stang every time to beat the FRS/BRZ twins on a real track. But that is not to say the twins are not precise, sporty two seaters, because they are.

      • 0 avatar
        lzaffuto

        Uh-huh. Maybe the Camaro driver missed a shift too? As the Camaro driver would say to a punk kid in a Civic complaining about his loss on the drag strip due to “technicalities”, “Run what ya brung!”

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      Toucan,

      The Ring is a dyno test, plain and simple. I’ve driven it and spent up to a minute at a time with my foot flat on the floor.

      A track like Mid-Ohio or Laguna Seca offers handling-biased vehicles a much better chance.

      • 0 avatar
        phillymiata

        The ring is absolutely the wrong place to mention for a low powered car. Last time i was there I rented a 318 race car (full cage, no interior, race suspension) and had a ball. But it is definitely a low powered car and while I was blasting by a lot of expensive and powerful metal in the turns the LOOOONG straight sections killed me.

        Hell, i got so bored with the lack of acceleration that I just cruised the straights and waved people by. If you want to really crank on the Ring you need some serious power.

      • 0 avatar
        Toucan

        > The Ring is a dyno test, plain and simple. I’ve driven it and
        > spent up to a minute at a time with my foot flat on the floor.

        I agree that without the last long straight the Ring would yield much more interesting lap times to compare real car talents.

        Thanks for reply.

        > that track they used was completely unsuitable for any car
        > bigger than the GTI, especially the Camaro

        > Time trials on a go-kart track are one thing, but on anything
        > designed for a real car…

        Sorry, but this is dead wrong. Camaro has 10 lbs/HP, GTI has 15. A “real” car with 50% power-to-weight advantage is faster anywhere, without the need for disclaimers or footnotes. A Porsche would be. The reason why Camaro SS is not is because it was built with same principles in mind as cheap digital compact cameras. Slap some big pixel numbers on it and to the hell that it won’t go usably over ISO 400.

        > The ring is absolutely the wrong place to mention for a low
        > powered car.

        OK OK… I meant its difficult corners to give an example of what matters.

      • 0 avatar
        PJ McCombs

        Along those lines…

        ‘Those digital speedometers are in kph, which means that these cars can barely break 100mph around the track’.

        Wasn’t this video shot at Tsukuba Circuit? That’s an extremely tight little track–1.2 miles total, and its longest straight is barely over a quarter of a mile. I can’t imagine many cars would hit nosebleed max speeds there.

      • 0 avatar
        DannyZRC

        twin-ring motegi, not that slow.

    • 0 avatar
      Byron Hurd

      Sorry, Toucan, but that ain’t gonna wash. Time trials on a go-kart track are one thing, but on anything designed for a real car, the GTI’s going to be lapped in the span of a typical HPDE session.

  • avatar
    Dr.Nick

    0-60 in 6.2 seconds is highly respectable. Seems like a great car.

  • avatar
    RRocket

    Jack,

    I know your disdain for “drifters”, but I’m not sure it’s quite fair to just refer to Keiichi Tsuchiya as a “noted drifter”. He should also be referred to as a noted, serious racer.

    He has a class win at LeMans (8th overall) and finished 2nd overall another time, was a successful JGTC racer and holds the absolute lap record at a few tracks in Japan.

    He’s a drifter to be sure…but he’s no slouch around a race track.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      I wasn’t trying to criticize the fellow… if Paul Newman had been driving, we would have called him “the actor, Paul Newman” even though Ol’ Blue Eyes had a hell of a race career.

      Insert William Gibson quote here about society being singularly unwilling to acclaim one person for two different kinds of accomplishments.

  • avatar
    raph

    Y’know what I see like the Miata, a great pair of cars for auto-xing.

  • avatar

    Even if the Mustang V6 is faster, it’s a moot point. The driving experience is totally different compared to the BRZ/FRS and few would cross shop them.

    • 0 avatar

      Few single-minded enthusiasts maybe, but not not few buyers, IMHO. I remember talking out one guy out of buying a Mustang after he got one for rent (and hit a cow on a dash across South Dakota). He now drives a Miata and is quite happy with it.

      I cross-shopped MINI and Fit once.

      • 0 avatar
        stottpie

        I agree. the market isn’t divided into “small sports car” or “big sports cars”, and then further subdivided into “foreign or domestic”.

        it’s more like “people who care about practicality”, and “people who want a fun car”

      • 0 avatar
        racer-esq.

        Two kinds of people buy these cars, enthusiasts and image buyers. The enthusiasts just want a fun car, so they’re likely to cross shop. The image buyers already have a predetermined image that they want to fit.

    • 0 avatar
      PenguinBoy

      Derek – I think I would agree. The BRZ/FRS seems on paper like a modern MGB-GT – somewhat underpowered, not particularly fast, but nicely balanced and fun to drive. The Mustang seems like a modern version of, well, a Mustang. Neither car is really a substitute for the other, but both are interesting in their own way, and I’m glad both exist.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      No, you wouldn’t cross shop, but you won’t be totally satisfied with either one either. I bought new 5.0 in ’88 and shortly after, bought an ’85 MR2 to canyon carve. Both were a kick, but I eventually had to thin the fleet and kept the 5.0 because it’s easier to make one handle than dropping a V6 in an MR2. It’s been done along with some V8s and in a few years they’ll be doing the same to GT-86s and B-RZs.

  • avatar
    redliner

    The Genesis Coupe 2.0t R-spec seems like a much better value proposition. Its similar in size, cost the same, but makes 270+ HP with the base engine, and is at least equally attractive in person. Having never driven either in anger, I can’t say which would be the better track weapon.

    • 0 avatar
      RRocket

      Similar in size? Not even close! The Genesis is almost 20″ longer and appears huge next to the FR-S.

      Here’s a side profile view with Miata, Genesis, FR-S and Mustang.

      http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-86/i-vgsWM3j/0/M/FT86-size-M.png

      • 0 avatar
        PenguinBoy

        Agreed – the Genesis coupe is a much bigger car, and more directly comparable to the Mustang. The base Mustang costs slightly less than the Genesis, and has slightly more power – which probably explains why you don’t see a lot of Genesis coupes in the wild…

    • 0 avatar
      Dr.Nick

      I think the Genesis coupe weighs about 300-400 lbs more, too

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        Hyundai says 3,362-3,554 lbs for the 4 cylinder models, so more like 600-800 lbs heavier. Mustang V6 starts at 3,501 lbs for a manual transmission model.

  • avatar
    Zykotec

    I cross shop anything against anything, and tbh, if it won’t drift I don’t see why it’s any better than my brothers Integra type-R …
    I’ll keep rebuilding my 30 year old euro-Fords, until I’m forced to get an e36….
    100mph is still considered fast on Norwegian roads btw :P

    • 0 avatar
      AKADriver

      It will drift, as well as any other production RWD sports coupe, which is to say that 45-degree slip angle, tire-smoking Formula Drift action will never happen, but it will swing the tail out gently just like a MkII Ford Escort or a stock Nissan 200SX.

      Moto Miwa’s review of the car probably gives the best actual description of its drifting prowess.

      http://club4ag.com/Events_Pages/FRS_Experience.htm

  • avatar
    arbnpx

    As a near-future Scion FR-S owner and admitted motorsports novice (hopefully not for long), here are my thoughts from watching the video over and over again:

    The only objective analysis in this video is that the 86 / BRZ / FR-S has a lower weight to power ratio (6.15 kg / ps) than the NC MX-5 (6.58 kg / ps). Even with the shenanigans, the NC MX-5 is a full 4 seconds behind the Toyobaru twins. You can also hear Takayuki Kinoshita struggling in the straights, knowing that he can’t out-power the 86 and BRZ, and probably won’t be able to out-maneuver them (and he wasn’t perfect in the corners; he made a few stumbly corrections, where the body was agitating, losing some speed).

    Naoki Hattori in the BRZ made a few mistakes that cost him, particularly a couple of pushed turns, as well as giving up the inside line to Tsuchiya on Lap 2 Turn 1. My favorite mistake by Hattori-san was near the end of lap 2, where he hit the gate on a 2nd to 3rd shift: “Aaaaaaa!! Shifuto-misuuuuuu!!”.

    Both Hattori and Tsuchiya had traction control enabled. I can’t confirm because the instrument cluster camera doesn’t have all of the VSC / traction status lights in view, but maybe they were in the “VSC Sport” mode, which does let you turn off traction control until 50 km/h, but then turns traction back on once above that speed. You can see the “traction control intervention alert” LED in the tachometer section blinking at certain points.

    For a more objective measurement, here’s a synchronized video of the 86 vs. BRZ on Tsukuba Circuit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te7F-SPV8eg
    86: 1’09″90
    BRZ: 1’10″70

  • avatar
    panzerfaust

    This doesn’t dampen my interest in owning an FR-S either. The Mazda got totally owned on this one, and had they not spotted a few car lengths it would have been a rout. No this isn’t that fast but it looks like a hellofa lot of fun.

  • avatar
    ajla

    “Still, it’s worth remembering that these cars will be easy meat for V-6 ponycars… even on a racetrack. Understand?”

    Actually, wouldn’t the hypothetical best case scenario for the FR-S versus the Mustang V6 or Camaro LS be on a track with a lot of very long straights? The pony cars might have 300+hp but they also have a very low top speed from the factory. The FR-S can supposedly go over 140 if given enough room.

    Yes, you can have the electronic limiter removed, but that also requires a new driveshaft on the Ford and new tires on the Chevy. Plus, there’s warranty considerations.

    I would expect that the Mustang V6 clangs into its limiter on most tracks.

    • 0 avatar
      phillymiata

      Enough room? Like 5 mile straights? Getting to 140 in the BRZ/FRS is going to take

      1) A huge amount of room (in miles)
      2) Downhill slope
      3) Wind assist
      4) Jesus coming down and pushing

      The extra power of the Pony cars will be usable coming out of every turn. The only thing a FRS/BRZ would have is the “feel” of the handling. Though some might prefer the “feel” of actual torque for their 25k. Neither is RIGHT, just different.

      It isn’t a sin against sports cars to prefer the heavier and more powerful car in some instances.

      • 0 avatar
        Zykotec

        With 200 hp in a small aerodynamic sportscar they really should be able to go over the 130mph my 1990 Accord could do…not to mention my 1983 Sierra Xr4i, both of which had only 150hp…
        Unless they (like my bothers Integra) are geared to redline earlier than 140mph.

    • 0 avatar
      burgersandbeer

      I think on many tracks acceleration is more important than top speed. 112 mph is pretty low though.

      Maybe Jack will expand on this, but my guess is the twins don’t accelerate fast enough for the higher top speed to matter. Except maybe on the ring…

  • avatar
    alanp

    Next year when the turbo versions of these twins arrive with around 300hp they are going to be very competitive with anything under $50K. And that is going to happen.

    • 0 avatar
      05lgt

      Based on B.S.’s earlier article, you shouldn’t have to wait a year for someone to bolt a 2.5 turbo in one of these. Still won’t match a GT on track, but oh the bumpy real road fun!

      • 0 avatar
        Toucan

        > Based on B.S.’s earlier article, you shouldn’t have to wait a
        > year for someone to bolt a 2.5 turbo in one of these.

        When Audi release their new model, does the S and RS version come immediately or gradually, over time?

        You want as much free press as possible over the time span as long as possible.

  • avatar
    FJ60LandCruiser

    Drifters are to race car drivers as professional wrestlers are to athletes, but I digress.

    The FT86 forums are ablaze as to how this car, which wheezes out less than 200 hp, will be the Second Coming. You can speak no ill of this modestly priced RWD boxer coupe which, at least on paper, is significantly slower than most everything else you can get for the price (25 grand).

    But none of this matters, because it has exceptional handling, so really it’s better than a 200k Ferrari, they say.

    I think this car’s mediocre straightline performance and the obligatory 3-5k dealer markup will kill it before any performance editions come out.

    You’ll have them languishing on the Scion lost next to the unloved new xB.

    • 0 avatar
      Astigmatism

      How do you have “obligatory 3-5k dealer markup” in the same post as “languishing on the Scion lots” in the same post? One or the other, but not both, unless there’s a major logical leap that I’m missing.

      Anyway, the backlash against these cars reminds me of people who compulsively post anti-Apple rants online. It’s just a car, but a car that a lot of people like. It doesn’t deserve a cult, but the posts attacking it seem to be far more related to the aura that’s been built up around the car than the car itself.

      • 0 avatar
        FJ60LandCruiser

        3-5k dealer markup on the first few units will guarantee that only those who really want it will buy it. You can’t even test drive one of these without a committment to buy. Once everyone stupid enough to buy at 3-5k markup has one of these in their garage sealed away for ebay profit in 10 years, everyone else has moved on and bought another car in a segment that is crowded with excellent (and faster) choices.

        When demand for a car is high, you’re supposed to make a bunch of them and sell them at reasonable cost–not rip off the few and drive away the many.

        And I do liken it to Apple in the way I can’t understand the tremendous hype behind mediocre, overpriced products.

      • 0 avatar
        AKADriver

        If you actually read the FT86 forums, you’d see reports of people putting down deposits at both Subaru and Scion to buy them at MSRP. “Obligatory markup” only exists in the fevered imaginations of people who already decided they don’t like the car.

      • 0 avatar
        FJ60LandCruiser

        Until someone walks away with a car for MSRP (which is still overpaying by most sane people’s standards), I’ll believe it.

        Dealers are notorious for profiting off of a hot new model and if it’s not in outright ADM, it’s how you can’t buy one without 3000 dollars’ worth of “TRD performance enhancers” which amount to stickers and bilstein shocks.

        Putting a deposit down and being promised a car doesn’t mean the dealer won’t reneg and demand you pay ADM. It’s not a binding contract in the least.

      • 0 avatar
        Dr.Nick

        The dealer markups on hot models don’t bother me nearly as much as their day to day attempts to screw people with financing shenanigans. The last car I bought, the dealer knew I came in with a credit union loans and still gave me a song and dance routine about why I should take their higher rate financing. Seriously, people who come in unprepared are mincemeat.

  • avatar
    phillymiata

    The car is not bad – but the overhype has created two distinct sports car camps. Those who think it is a water walking miracle worker and those that think it is a terrible waste of money. I am curious how many they will actually sell. I am sure there will be a flurry of sale the first 6 months that peters out consideraably once people realize what Jack said:

    1) It isn’t that fast
    2) It wont drift

    As a car marketed to young guy you most definitely want it to go at least a little bit fast or at least feel fast. And low torque = slow feeling. Being dusted in a miata is no big deal – its a girly convertible! Dusted in your RWD sports coupe by a minivan? Not as cool. This is the ultimate “enthusiast” car, now we get to see how many of the most vocal car fans actually will buy it.

    • 0 avatar
      wmba

      “Dusted in your RWD sports coupe by a minivan?”

      And exactly what minivan would that be?

      • 0 avatar
        AKADriver

        The current crop of V6 vans all do the 0-60 sprint between 7 and 8 seconds, which is a bit slower than the BRZ/86 (assuming it isn’t forced to do a 2-3 shift at 59mph).

        Even if it were true, it’s a meaningless argument in light of Jack’s other article from today. The BRZ/86 is as fast as some exotic sports cars within my lifetime. The fact that I can buy something faster is almost meaningless.

  • avatar
    lzaffuto

    Think about what you are saying. The Miata is the best selling sportscar in the world, and not because of the performance numbers it produces. Not because it is fast, not because it is the best handling. Everything you said about the FR-S applies to it as well, but doesn’t hurt it in the least. This is *NOT* a numbers car. Like the Miata, it can be made into one, but that isn’t the point. The point is *FEEL*.


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