By on April 12, 2012

Well, we knew it would happen. Some dealers are already starting to ask for markups on the Subaru BRZ. And some people are dumb enough to pay them.

According to an email received by Inside Line, a dealer is asking for a $5,000 “non-negotiable” markup on their BRZs. Apparently, their allocation is small (gee, wonder why!) and many of the cars have been pre-ordered. Hopefully, nobody is dumb enough to indulge this dealer. These cars are going to be readily available in a few months, once all the early adopters have flooded the forums with endless shots of stock BRZs and poorly photographed Monroney stickers. I wonder how Scion dealers will get around their “no haggle” pricing policy? Lots of dealer accessories and rust proofing, no doubt.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

80 Comments on “Dealers Begin Subaru BRZ Price Gouging...”


  • avatar
    ajla

    Scion’s “Pure Price” policy allows dealers to charge a markup, but like you wrote, they can’t “haggle”, and they can charge $2000 for a dealer-installed TRD oil cap.

    Because of this, I’d guess the Scion version will have a slightly lower initial markup. Or not.

    • 0 avatar
      RGS920

      I put a “refundable deposit” down on a Scion FRS the day they announced pricing. The deposit is contingent on a test drive and whether the local subaru dealership gets a BRZ in before the FRS. I have a contract listing the total price due which includes the base price, destination, paperwork and tax.

      I spoke to the salesman, manager and finance guy and they both stated that there will be no markup or hidden costs. The price they quoted is the price i’ll pay and it’s in writing.

      Also my local subaru dealership assured me that there would be no mark up or hidden costs but I don’t have anything in writing from them. The sales person over there gave me a call yesterday that they have pricing on the BRZ in and wanted to meet with them. I am curious to see whether there will be any mark up or hidden costs.

      • 0 avatar
        GS650G

        “I’m sorry sir, I thought you knew we charged 1500 dollars for dealer prep on this model”
        Don’t underestimate them. If demand is high they will return your deposit and shrug.

  • avatar
    jhott997

    Good for the dealer if he/she can get it.
    Better for the customers who are willing to wait 6 months.
    Dealer manipulation of the MSRP through a “market adjustment” to increase the price of the car essentially guarantees this car will be readily available below MSRP six or so months after launch.

    • 0 avatar
      stryker1

      “Dealer manipulation of the MSRP through a “market adjustment” to increase the price of the car essentially guarantees this car will be readily available below MSRP six or so months after launch.”

      Really? How do you figure?
      I’m not being sarcastic, I’d love to know the theory behind this thought.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    30k to 35k for 162whp (Cobb dyno) or 170whp (opto-dyno) at the rear and rear seat unfit for habitability.

    Wooo Woooo!

    But I’m sure I don’t get it…because this is so much better than the smorgasbord of cars that make 60% to 80% more horsepower at the wheels that cost LESS (V6s) or those making double that at the wheels that cost about the same – or LESS (V8s).

    Heads Up! Heads Up! Here’s another one.. and a.. and a.. another one.

    [Chorus]

    Yeek-Yeek Woop-Woop
    Why you all in my ear? Talkin’ a whole bunch a shit that I ain’t tryin to hear.

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      Oh boy, it wouldnt be a BRZ/FRS post without someone pointing out that there are cars on the market with more HP. Capt. Obvious to the rescue, beating the dead horse.

      Did you hear the big news?? There are other $25-35k cars with more doors than the BRZ! And that weigh more! and have FWD, and more back seat room! And I hear some of them even have sunroofs!

    • 0 avatar
      davesrave

      Oh boy, it wouldnt be a BRZ/FRS post without someone pointing out that there are cars on the market with more HP. Capt. Obvious to the rescue, beating the dead horse.

      Did you hear the big news?? There are other $25-35k cars with more doors than the BRZ! And that weigh more! and have FWD, and more back seat room! And I hear some of them even have sunroofs!

      And Deadweight’s response is: “It’s more the spread than the vig”. Huh?

      Am I the only one who’s gonna call him out on that? He does have an appropriate moniker…

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        What I mean is that the difference in performance between similarly priced cars to the BRZ is relatively large – not marginal – and that the fact that there’s apparently at least one dealer attempting to mark up MSRP by 20% is the annoying salt in the wound after the performance gap fact.

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        I got it… and if you are shopping by the numbers only, then sure, there are other choices out there. But you want a light, small, RWD dynamic hardtop coupe with a back seat and you don’t care about the 0-60 times, there are not too many choices. Pony cars have 500-800 lbs on the FT86, the Hyundai is a little lighter, but its still a big car. And I love the Mustang, but I can’t get a new one equipped comparably for under $27k, so its not “cheaper” unless you buy the rental car special, and that might win at a stoplight but it won’t drive nearly as well. Plus, its comparatively huge, with just as useless of a back seat.

        I really like the FT86, it just hits all the right buttons. I think most of the target market is going to “get it” like I do, people who dont get it wont even consider it.

      • 0 avatar
        tonyola

        You can get a 2013 Mustang V6 with the Performance Package for under $25,000.

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        Only if you give up the tech package, which is really needed to make it equivilent to the BRZ. And I want the better seats, because I don’t like the standard rental Mustang seats. So as I said, to get a V6 Mustang equipped the way I want it, to consider it equal to the BRZ, its $27k+. You might not care about the same options so you can get it cheaper, but then you can also buy an FRS with less equipment for less as well.

        Oh, and I liked @DeadWeight’s vig analogy!

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        “You can get a 2013 Mustang V6 with the Performance Package for under $25,000.”

        Which comes from the factory with the top speed of a Nissan Versa and a driveshaft that turns inside out if you try to go any faster than that.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        I get what mnm is saying.

        He’s saying that the FRS/BRZ are unique in the sense that there aren’t a lot of proper, RWD, low COG, handling oriented cars (prioritizing handling over raw power), in the size, weight and configuration they happen to fit in, at a close price point.

        And I agree with him. Now that the RX-8 is bidding farewell (even though it did have an actually usable back seat) and the Honda S2000 has been killed off, this is even more the case.

        The FRS/BRZ even have limited slip differentials – something that Porsche neglected to put on the first iteration of the Cayman (I’m not sure if newer versions have this indispensable, IMO, feature, or not, and am too tired to look it up right now).

        The point I’m making is that whether is rational, fair or whatnot, many, many people will look at a 100 horsepower difference in cars that are even somewhat heavier and larger, but cost about the same, and that will be just too much to ignore.

        That’s where I think that if Toyota/Subaru have planned ahead intelligently, they will already have a relatively reasonably priced factory FI option at the ready. The question, from an engineering standpoint, given the existing motor and drivetrain of the FRS/BRZ, is whether such an option can produce a significant bump in power (let’s just call it 20%, which would produce a not so insignificant 240bhp in a car as light as these).

      • 0 avatar
        replica

        Just bought a new 2012 base V6 Mustang for $19.2k. That’s uh…significantly cheaper than this monster 160whp hype machine.

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        I was checking out the 2012 Stangs online… There is like $4k in rebates, its hard to beat the value there. If you can live with the rental grade base version, its a steal.

        But I really like the 2013 updates, I would rather wait for the rebates to kick in and buy a 2013 later over a 2012 now.

  • avatar
    stryker1

    Still a bargain, fanboys?
    Maybe this will end up being like the GT-R where the only place the MSRP existed was in the fantasies of the customer.

    And you know what? The dealer is going to sell every one they get at that price, at least for a while.

    • 0 avatar
      jhott997

      I seriously doubt they will “sell every one they get”. I will be anxiously waiting for the sales numbers as the months roll on.
      Are you buying one? Are you buying one with a $5000 market adjustment?

      • 0 avatar
        stryker1

        Hell no.
        But I would certainly consider one for around $25k.
        Assuming, of course, that it turns out to be “TEH GAME CHANGAR!” that it’s been hyped up to be, and not merely a more manly MX-5.

  • avatar
    jaje

    I have a preorder down on a BRZ already. I will have to pay MSRP though which I normally never do (usually buy used 4-5 years old). But I’m glad this car is coming out this year as I need to replace my current daily driver and I’ve been looking for a revolutionary small sports car to hit the market that is affordable (2+2, rwd, lightweight, and exceptional balance). My other choice was an early 996 and pay the thousands to get the defective parts fixed that Porsche OEM stiffed its owners on (RMS / IMS failures).

  • avatar
    Educator(of teachers)Dan

    “And some people are dumb enough to pay them.”

    Nobody ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of their fellow human beings.

    Do I like the car? Yes. Would I pay over MSRP? No, not for any vehicle, ever.

  • avatar
    stottpie

    just drove this yesterday!

    one thing people will need to add to the msrp is a brand new set of summer tires. those all season prius tires are incredibly shitty for performance. the tail end was slipping and sliding on any fast turn.

  • avatar
    DC Bruce

    Articles like these are like fingernails on a blackboard to me.

    First, as a matter of law (in the United States at least), a dealer is legally free to sell a product at whatever price it wants. Manufacturers have various ways of encouraging or discouraging that, but flat-out re-sale price fixing is forbidden. (This is not the case in Japan, for example.)

    Secondly, except for electricity, water & sewer and plain old telephone service, and government “cost-plus” defense contracts prices are market-based, not cost-based. For something like this, the manufacturer decides to build a product which represents an attractive value in the market at a certain price point — and then figures out whether it can build a product to sell at that price and make a profit.

    So Toyota and Subaru build this product to sell at a certain price point. But the dealers are the final indicators of whether the companies hit the target. Their incentive is to make money, so if they can charge more, they will. It works the other way, too, as lots of cars — espcially from the Detroit 3 — are overpriced. The market’s verdict on them is that they will only sell at lower than msrp.

    As for calling the buyer’s “stupid,” by what metric? “Early adoption” is a phenomenon that’s known in all sorts of product markets: the folks who wait all night to buy the next generation I-phone, etc. These people are willing to pay a premium to be the first person on the block with one of these cars. I think most of them know that, and most of them may know that if they had waited 9 months, they could buy the same car at MSRP, or less. But, by then, they wouldn’t be the first person on the block to own one.

    The manufacturers ought to be encouraged by this (depending upon how long it lasts) because it means that their assumptions about price were conservative and that they will make what they planned to make selling these cars. The only issue is volume, but increased supply will let the air out of any initial price inflation; and dealers aren’t going to let these cars gather dust on their lots while holding out for a $5,000 price premium.

    Consider the much-maligned Volt as the other side of the coin. It appears that, even with the $7,000 per car taxpayer subsidy of the buyer, the market does not find this car to be a value proposition, outside of a handful of early adopters and people who buy the car for the image it projects of them. GM is going to face the difficult choice between discounting the car and discontinuing it. The floor for the price of the Volt is the incremental cost of producing each unit, which given all of the exotic technology inside is probably pretty high. There’s no point in selling a product where each sale adds to your loss.

    As lots of people have said, the value proposition for the Volt would be workable if its price were in the same neighborhood as one of the more nicely equipped Priuses. We’ll see if the price gets there, or if that is below GM’s cost.

    But the initial market response to the Volt and this car are opposite sides of the same coin, and, as between the two, you’d much rather be making a BRZ than a Volt.

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      Calling them “early adopters” doesn’t change anything, they are stupid, regardless if its cars, electronics, clothing, whatever. By what metric? By the metric of common sense, which is fairly lacking in the US in general.

      That being said, if they want to pay more, go ahead, whatever floats your boat. The “more money than brains” club has many members at all levels. People who have the means will pay $700+ for an unlocked iPhone, and those people are stupid. Rich, but stupid. If I was rich, I would probably be stupid too, so I really cant say much. But at least I would admit I am stupid and then brag about being rich so I dont care.

      In Florida back in 2000, people were paying $15k OVER MSRP for the Honda S2000. In the same exact month, dealers in West Virginia were selling the S2000 for $500 over INVOICE. It took me one long day to drive to WV, or one $300 plane ticket to fly there. That means that those morons in Florida could have gone to West Virginia and bought thier S2000 PLUS a Civic Si for the same price as the S2K they bought (and had to wait for) in FL. And 2 yrs later those $47k S2000′s were barely worth half what they paid for them. Early adopters? No… they were idiots. No one should ever pay over MSRP for a mass-produced car.

      • 0 avatar
        rodface

        Being stupid can only lose you money, not make you any. If you’re spending over MSRP for a car, or laying down the cash for an iPhone, you are either spending someone else’s money (the bank’s on loan, or your wealthy parents’), or you are truly rich and can afford to buy whatever you please at whatever price you feel like paying.

        If I were in the latter crowd, I might indeed indulge in paying a bit extra in order to have the first new this or that on my block. I’d have earned the right to flaunt my success, dammit. But I probably wouldn’t do it that often, because it’s pretty stupid to pay extra for depreciating assets, and I didn’t get rich by being stupid, did I? :)

      • 0 avatar
        Viceroy_Fizzlebottom

        Actually buying the phone outright, unlocked IS cheaper in the long run than buying a carrier subsidized phone. Please tell me you guys already knew this

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        Its a wash pretty much either way. You need a service plan regardless, so you have to sign up with someone. Not sure how ATT/Sprint?Verizon does it, but with Tmobile its easy to compare, the difference you pay for the subsidized plans is the same as the “payment” on the 0% financing you get on any phone with the standard plans. Now if you keep the subsidized plan beyond the contract date, and do not get a new phone as soon as they allow it, you pay more. But no one does that. IIRC, Verizon lets you trade up yearly instead of every 2 years, so they keep people in that financing loop endlessly. I do not know if they offer cheaper unsubsidized plans or not, but even if they do, I bet you it works out to be exactly the same price in the end.

        Most people won’t shell out $600+ for a phone, but $199 up front and an extra $10-20 a month is doable.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        Really off-topic, but buying an unlocked iPhone can pay off nicely if you travel a lot. You can get local pay as you go plans in other countries for FAR less than AT&T charges for international service. But that is really the only reason to care.

        As for cars, I’m in the “no reason to ever pay MSRP or above camp”. I’m patient, if I want a FRS/BRZ I can certainly wait 6 months or however it takes for supply to be better than demand, and I also have nearly limitless frequent flier miles and hotel points to travel to get one in a place where supply is more than demand.

        I do look forward to test driving one at some point, neat car, maybe will float my boat as an Alfa Spider replacement in my little fleet.

      • 0 avatar
        jmo2

        The “more money than brains” club has many members at all levels….If I was rich…”

        Yet as smart as you are – you aren’t rich?

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        @jmo – I know right?!? I dont get it either, you think I would be a millionaire by now… lol

    • 0 avatar
      Robbie

      It is legal, but that does not make these dealer practices desirable. The amount of people who can afford a new car, but are not buying because they perceive dealers as scum and hate the buying experience will only increase this way.

      • 0 avatar
        Patrickj

        I’ve long believed that there would be 20 or 30% more new cars sold if customers didn’t have a 50/50 chance of having to bathe in Lysol after visiting a dealership.

    • 0 avatar
      fvfvsix

      I’m sorry – do the math, people. It is NEVER mathematically preferable to buy a “subsidized” phone vs paying a lower monthly fee.

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        The math differs depending on the carrier. On Tmobile, its a wash. From what I can tell, on Verizon there is no lower monthly fee therefore you would be wrong. I cannot speak to the other carriers, but its generally around equal when compared to the price of top-line phones like we were discussing. For the cheaper ones, I see your point.

  • avatar
    George B

    I don’t have a problem with a price increase when demand exceeds supply, but I wish the extra profit went back to the manufacturer who took the R&D and manufacturing risk with the popular new model, not the dealers who just removed the plastic wrap and washed it.

  • avatar
    Ubermensch

    I remember hearing that some dealers were marking up PT Cruisers thousands of dollars when they first came out. All I could say was…wow, just wow.

  • avatar
    kvndoom

    People will pay it. I know folks who paid over 10,000 above MSRP to be the “first” to own a Camaro.

  • avatar
    dwford

    Let the early adopters pay. They don’t mind.

    • 0 avatar
      Russycle

      Amen. I’m not much of a free market worshipper, but when it comes to what are essentially toys for people with cash to burn, I just can’t work up the outrage. Can’t afford the dealer mark up? Then choose from one of the tens of millions of other cars on the market. Or wait 6 months.

  • avatar
    bunkie

    There’s a bit of personal deja vu here. I sat in what I suspect was this very car at the NYIAS last Sunday and really liked what I saw. It takes me back to 1979 and the RX-7 when there was nothing else like it on the market. The dealer wanted $500 over sticker for the RX-7 which was actually low for the time. I wanted it. It was my first new car.

    So I understand why people would pay the markup. The kick in the teeth was when I went to pick up the RX and the dealer told me “I hope you don’t mind, we didn’t get a chance to wash the car”. Really? A markup over MSRP of 8% on it and YOU CAN’T EVEN DO THE COMPLETE DEALER PREP?

    That’s what swore me off ever again paying a markup on a car no matter how badly I wanted it.

  • avatar
    hreardon

    When the first of the New Beetles arrived in 1998 the markups were incredible. There were bidding wars *on the showroom floor* for these cars, especially if the dealership had a silver one in stock.

    Fact is, several people paid $10,000 over sticker and one very wealthy housewife paid $32,000 over sticker to outbid someone else. It happened with the New Beetle and it will happen with other cars.

    Hey, if people are willing to pay it, others will charge it. Don’t like it, don’t buy it.

  • avatar
    stryker1

    I think simplifying this to “don’t like it, don’t pay it.” somewhat misses the point. Yes this is a free market, and you can charge what you like for what you sell, but if the price is $30k+ for a car whose entire marketing campaign was centered on bringing fun to drive, rear-wheel awesomeness to people who can’t afford a 370z or something, then I think you have to admit that this puts a largish dent in the stated goal of this vehicle.

  • avatar
    sastexan

    I refused to place a deposit (refundable or not) on a vehicle I have not driven. I have 2 toyota dealers and 2 subaru (the third I contacted gave me a line that they had a car that morning I could drive but it already left – I told them to find another idiot) who will call me when they have a vehicle in stock to see. Then, and only then, will I consider putting a deposit down.

    I’ve been known to update boilerplate legalese on documents before – and I will again if the deposit paperwork allows willy nilly pricing.

    • 0 avatar
      rodface

      And it’s in your right to – just be sure that they’ve been signed and approved on their end. Many people think Ts & Cs are one-way documents, but they’re completely negotiable (even, I suspect, if they “non-negotiable” :)

      • 0 avatar
        sastexan

        Correct; although most see it as non-negotiable terms on their end. I’ve been threatened, bullied, and told many times that “I’ve worked with XXX high powered attorneys in DC and never had an issue with my contract” to which I replied “I don’t have their unlimited budget” and told them to pound sand. The president of one firm accidentally emailed me instead of his salesperson and said “who the hell does this guy think he is” and I replied “the guy who is not hiring you now.” There were other words said. And ultimately, I always found someone willing to make our arrangement work.

        It wasn’t easy, and I spent more time, but I was more comfortable with expectations fully set up front and being transparent.

  • avatar
    dwford

    Capitalism. Everyone thinks it’s great until someone else practices it on them, then socialism seems so much more “fair.”

    • 0 avatar
      stryker1

      I think that’s a pretty dim view of Capitalism.
      Real “Capitalism” wouldn’t have laws forbidding manufacturer run dealerships, allowing bloviating middle men to profit from slimy tactics and price inflating.

    • 0 avatar
      aunt_slappy

      So true. Our capitalist structure ensures a broad choice of cars, to buy or not as we see fit. And they’re only cars, beyond basic transportation it’s all for fun and entertainment anyway.

  • avatar
    Boff

    I guess in order to have an intelligent discussion on this topic, we have to first consider whether “gouging” is the appropriate term. Gouging is, in my mind, charging an inflated price for an item for which there is no reasonable alternative, such as plywood a day before a hurricane hits. In the BRZ’s case, there are plenty of alternatives, including waiting a few months or buying 2 used RX-8′s. Overcharging is not the same as gouging. The market can pass judgement on the former, but not on the latter.

  • avatar
    gslippy

    Supply and demand drives price, and is always self-correcting.

    Chevy is probably giving away 2012 Impalas these days.

    • 0 avatar
      tallnikita

      No they are not, they are asking a price comparable to other midsize cars. Which, until I read Baruth’s eulogy, I thought was certainly pushing the envelope.

  • avatar
    wmba

    These US dealers are pikers compared to Subaru Canada, where a $25.5K WRX in the US becomes a $34K car in Canada. Subaru Canada knows how to overcharge in a grand manner!

    Toyota has kind of sent Subaru Canada into a tailspin by pricing the FR-S at 26K here. Since the BRZ and WRX are the same price as each other in the US, and the BRZ is only $1100 more than the Scion, the gougers at Subaru Canada are in a pickle. How do you charge $8K more for the BRZ to make it the same price as the WRX up here? Difficult. Well, first of all, delete the Nav/Bluetooth, and probably cut the price a bit, not too much.

    Yup, Subaru Canada will probably find a way to gouge with a straight face, they’re past masters at it.

  • avatar
    tonyola

    The Honda CRX was also subject to huge markups when it was first introduced for 1984. There were dealers asking nearly double the list price of $6,600 for a “delivery now” drive-away price on a 1.5. If you wanted to pay list, like I did, you had to wait…and wait. It took four month for delivery for the CRX I ordered at barely over list.

    • 0 avatar
      solracer

      I intended to buy a CRX back then. First time I was turned off by the $1500 markup the dealer had and ended up going home in a new Camaro instead. Two years later in 1986 after I had discovered the Camaro was junk I went back again, managed to get them down to sticker this time and then backed out because the CRX Si I wanted was still a month out and they wanted to discount the Camaro $200 more to wait even if I gave them the car right then and there. Ended up with a Mirage Turbo and frankly I was a lot happier with the car and with not having to deal with a Honda dealer. 26 years later I’ve still never owned a Honda and I doubt I ever will, that’s how much of a bad taste the experience left in my mouth.

  • avatar
    jaje

    It is the law of economics – supply restricted and great demand creates opportunities. Don’t like it then buy a car that was over supplied to the demand and you get a great deal.

    Calling someone stupid b/c they pay MSRP or over b/c they want to enjoy the newest and best is stupid (lol). Let’s apply this you paid full price analogy to watching a movie. Are you stupid when you go to a movie theater to watch a new release versus wait til it’s out 2 weeks and watch it at matinee reduced price, or wait til it comes out on ON Demand, or Netflix or Redbox, or the smartest ones wait til it is free on TV.

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      Well, yea, actually I do feel pretty stupid going to see some of the mindless garbage they release to the movie theaters, especially when it starts streaming on Netflix for free 3 weeks later. But thats not a great analogy… going to see a movie in the theater is a different experience than I can get at home. This is why I would never waste $10 to go see American Reunion, but I would gladly pay $12 to see Titanic in 3D, some movies are meant to be experienced in the theater.

      The guy who pays over MSRP to drive a car sooner than the rest of us doesnt get a faster car or a better driving experience, he simply pays more. Plus, its not $10 more, or $100 more… its thousands more. Maybe stupid is too harsh a word. How about foolish?

      • 0 avatar
        jaje

        So having the new best car sooner than anyone else doesn’t count for anything? I’m buying one of the first ones in my area for MSRP so I’m paying sticker. I don’t think I’m being foolish b/c this car will likely be what I’ve been waiting years and years for. I could buy a used Genesis 2.0T or maybe a 996 (then sink in $3-5k fixing it up and preventing IMS / RMS failures). I do have the option to walk away if I don’t like it after test driving it (I fear for the sales rep that’ll go along with me for that ride). I will even get back my deposit as they will sell that car w/in hours of me declining to take it (my dealer is pretty cool). Now would I pay over sticker for it…maybe a little but never had to deal with that.

        I was being smarmy going down the slippery slope to movies – had fun writing that. And yes there is a lot of absolute crap coming out these days (really any comedy featuring adam sandler or kevin james). And yes some things you must see in theaters to truly appreciate the movie such as imax Avatar 3d (that was incredible). But Titanic? really ;)

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        Paying MSRP doesnt make you foolish, I said OVER MSRP, and really I meant alot over like $5k, even if you ponied up an extra $500 for the bragging rights in your circle of friends, I wouldnt really call that too foolish, maybe a bit silly though. Buying a used Gen 2.0T wouldn’t make you foolish, but I hardly see the point, you could get a new one for the same or less than the BRZ and not give up the 75hp.

        However… that you would even consider buying a steaming pile of crap 996 over pretty much any other generation 911?? Now THAT would make you foolish! :)

        As for the movies, Iconcede that Avatar was a better example yes, I just picked Titanic vs. Reunion because they are in theaters together. But I am not afraid to admit I liked Titanic 15 yrs ago, though I havent seen the 3D version. :)

  • avatar
    philadlj

    If people want to throw their money away to get something first, I say let them. It’ll be good for the economy!

    • 0 avatar
      fvfvsix

      Actually, it will only be good for the economy if they pay cash. Every dollar borrowed into existence has a net negative effect on the economy (since our debt service is now ridiculously high as a nation).

  • avatar
    threeer

    “Non-negotiable?” Sure it is…you can negotiate with yourself to either pony up the extra $5k or wait until the hype dies down.

    Sellers have the right to aske whatever they want for an item. Conversely, a buyer has the right to refuse to pay. Eventually, a medium will be reached.

    And while that is surely legal, it *might* hurt the image of what the FR-S/BRZ was supposed to define…an obtainable/affordable sports car. Sure, there will be early adopters…and one can call them whatever you’d like (I’m patient…I can wait six months to not have to shell out an additional $5k), but the mark-ups will eventually die off once the “gotta have it now” grab wanes.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    This isn’t a truly limited batch of Ferrari 559s, people.

    This is a nice, small sporty coupe produced by one of the largest car manufacturers in history (in affiliation with its less large but not insignificantly sized affiliate).

    No one said people can’t be money dumb. But no can credibly argue it’s not money dumb to pay MSRP, let alone MSRP + a 20% markup on such a depreciating asset, regardless as to the subjective and impossible-to-quantify emotions involved with being an ‘early adopter.’

  • avatar
    daveainchina

    dealers who do this kind of business don’t get my business. I go someplace else until I find one that doesn’t try this stuff on me.

  • avatar
    solracer

    This is why even though I might normally have considered one I haven’t even bothered looking at the BRZ, while it’s a decent $25,000 car it’s a pretty lousy deal at $30,000…

  • avatar
    Richard

    All you people that are walking around with a piece of paper saying you can get either the Toyota or Subaru version of this car are fools.When “YOUR CAR” arrives at the dealership the person who is willing to pay the most will be driving it. You will get “YOUR CAR” when the dealer feels like giving it to you,but you will get tired of waiting or having your calls being ignored, and you’ll go and get your deposit back because you will be so frustated.
    Remember the dealer always has the upper hand,especially with such an Emotional Purchase as this, thats why the dealer always wins, to him it’s only about making the most money. Our policy on a model is we don’t take deposits until the car arrives and it’s first come first serve,and we get the real buyers, and people pay what we want because the can see and touch the car they are going to drive home in 2 hours.This policy really separates the men from the boys..

  • avatar
    FJ60LandCruiser

    To preface, people were paying 4k over list for the PT Cruiser when that POS came out over a decade ago so that says a lot about how dumb the car buying public can be when they want something.

    …also, I am always dismayed when a popular and desirable new vehicle comes out and the career criminals who are obligated BY LAW to serve as a middle man between the manufacturer and the consumer jack the price up by a few grand and then say it’s “capitalism.”

    The car dealers lobby to have their lucrative price gouging empire, put up a barrier of hidden fees and imaginary costs between manufactuer and consumer, then cite the fact that if SOME people are stupid enough to overpay 5k for a product, you must as well if you want it.

    So the real question is if such practices can kill interest in such a car, because everyone who could potentially buy one gets turned off by the limited availability and cost and dealer bullshit… Then after all the idiots with too much cash to spend buy their Scions and Subarus, the rest of us move on and spend our money more wisely and the dealers are left sitting on their 5k marked up FT-86 inventory that NO ONE wants to buy and cry to the manufacturer to send them something that sells and the remaining stock is traded for some Outback wagons or new Avalon sedans and Toybaru pulls the plug on production.

    It’s all hypothesis, but I can see the “super low production” FRS/BRZ being axed because of price gouging killing off all interest for the car.

  • avatar
    W126

    Funny how people describe a Subaru BRZ/Toyota FT-86/Scion FRS as “the new best car”, as if it’s a McLaren MP4-12C. It’s a mass-produced, underpowered coupe that will be out of style in a couple years. I actually liked the concept of the BRZ i.e. a sensibly priced, rear drive, lightweight car with good handling, but I’m not going to convince myself that it’s the finest automobile on the market, not even close. The problem is most people don’t know how to negotiate when buying a car and they are unable to walk away from a bad deal. Let’s face it, if all the people who were paying $5,000 markups on the BRZ were super rich, they wouldn’t be buying a BRZ. If everyone had common sense when it came to car buying, dealers wouldn’t be able to get away with their mark ups.


Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Subscribe without commenting

Recent Comments

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Staff

  • Authors

  • Brendan McAleer, Canada
  • Marcelo De Vasconcellos, Brazil
  • Matthias Gasnier, Australia
  • W. Christian 'Mental' Ward, Abu Dhabi
  • Mark Stevenson, Canada
  • Faisal Ali Khan, India