By on February 10, 2012

I love progress, I love technology, and I don’t have an aversion to comfort. With that in mind, the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon and I seem like an unlikely pairing. Jeep promises however that they have made the most civilized Wrangler ever without sacrificing off-road performance. While Wrangler shoppers with kids and a commute may be inclined to opt for the four-door Jeeplet, the 2-door variety has a large California following from the hip urban set to “rural-suburbanites” like myself, especially since GM killed off Hummer.

While the Wrangler has its roots in the Willys CJ, the Wrangler as we know it started in 1987 when AMC decided the off-roader needed some on-road creature comforts to boost sales. Back in 2007 Jeep ruffled more feathers by stretching the Wrangler’s wheelbase and track several inches to improve road manners. Despite 25 years of continual improvements to make the Wrangler more suited to the commuter shopper, thankfully little has been done to alter the look of the go-anywhere brand. Much like Porsche’s dedication to the 911’s classic styling, Jeep has resisted styling the Wrangler into a mainstream SUV. From the flat black fenders, rubber hood straps, to the removable doors and roof, the Wrangler seems to have lost little of its off road charm over the years.

Because of the off-road ready height, jumping into the Jeep isn’t a euphemism. Once inside the tall cabin, it’s obvious the Wrangler’s new interior was designed with daily driving comforts in mind. While some portions of the interior may well be waterproof and you can still remove the carpet to access drain plugs, I’d keep the garden hose away from the dashboard and seats. The off-road faithful will be glad to hear that the dash plastics, while more visually appealing are still hard and easy to wipe down. The rest of us will just be glad to know that Chrysler finally decided to add some sound insulation to the cabin. Our Rubicon model came equipped with a few luxury features never before seen on a Wrangler, including heated front seats, heated side view mirrors and steering wheel audio controls.

While the serious off-roader will likely scoff at butt-warmers as further evidence that the Wrangler is getting soft in its old age, an end to “Wrangler minimalism” brings beneficial changes to the commuter and weekend off-roader with stability control, tire pressure monitoring (when I’m rock climbing I’d like to know if my tire is flat) electronically locking differentials and sway bars that can be disconnected at the touch of a button. While “electronic sway bar disconnect” may sound like a superfluous option, it helps the new Wrangler maintain serious suspension travel for rock crawling without the safety issues of permanently removing the sway bars as some Wrangler owners have in the past. Despite these improvements, the rear seat remains an afterthought with difficult access and little room.

Wrangler shoppers have never had so many options to choose from, including 6 different trim-lines, multiple axle choices, two transfer cases, two different door styles (glass or plastic window), a variety of radio and navigation options and of course a manual transmission is still available. Our tester was the Rubicon model which is perhaps paradoxically the most luxurious model and the most “hard core off-road” model sporting a 4:1 low range transfer case and large 32-inch BFGoodrich off-road tires.

Regardless of which Wrangler you choose, all Wrangler models share the same engine: the new 3.6L “Pentastar” V6 which replaces last year’s ancient push-rod 3.8L V6. The new mill uses an aluminum block and dual variable valve timing to crank out a best-ever 285HP and 260lb-ft of torque, an improvement of 83HP and 23lb-ft versus the outgoing engine, while improving highway mileage by 2MPG. Chrysler didn’t just pluck the engine out of the Caravan and drop it into the Wrangler, as they tweaked the exhaust, added a variable speed electric fan for better cooling, relocated the alternator high up on the block and pointed it rearward to keep it dry and installed an intake snorkel (you can see it on the left in the picture above) to improve the Wrangler’s water fording ability. While the new V6 is considerably quieter and more refined than the 3.8L, it lacks the iconic sound the old AMC inline-6 delivered. While I’m still wondering why Jeep didn’t pull a ZF 6-speed off the shelf, the Mercedes W5A580 5-speed automatic is much better suited to the Wrangler than the Grand Cherokee, delivering fairly quick shifts and a willingness to hold lower gears when called upon. Also available is a 6-speed manual for those that prefer to row your own. Forum fan-boys are complaining that the old skid plates are incompatible due to the new engine’s exhaust routing, so bear that in mind before trying to reuse your old accessories.

I’ll leave comparisons of the off-road abilities to the rock crawler rags, but I will say that a brief trip to Hollister Hills SVRA with the Wrangler and the Toyota FJ proved the benefit of a short wheelbase, wide track and steep approach and departure angles. If road manners matter in your next SUV, look somewhere else. On the highway, its obvious that Jeep’s passion remains off the beaten path; the Wrangler is still a pig with plenty of body roll, vague recirculating ball steering, mushy pedals, and a really twitchy rear end on the skidpad. The poor on-road performance has as much to do with the seriously heavy-duty Dana 44 solid front and rear axles as the 10.3 inches of ground clearance, mud tires and 3,800lb curb weight.

Instead of 2012 bringing the slick new large-screen uConnect systems from the Chrysler 300 or Jeep’s own Grand Cherokee, Wrangler buyers have to make do with Chrysler’s last generation radios and nav systems. The “Media center 130″ is the standard unit with MP3 playback from a data CD or USB stick, an aux input jack and six speakers. Sahara and higher models get a 7-speaker setup with a subwoofer by Infinity and steering wheel audio controls, but strangely, Bluetooth phone integration and iPod connectivity are optional on all models. Sahara and Rubicon models can optionally choose between the $1,035 Garmin based navigation system, or the $1,845 Harmon based navigation system which includes some more sophisticated GPS equipment and allows voice command of the navigation system. Both navigation systems offer XM radio and XM traffic (1 year subscription included), Bluetooth phone interface and iPod integration. Before commuter-types scoff at the price of the nav systems, you should know that this generation uConnect doesn’t exactly love the iPhone 4 and browsing your iPod playlists on the base radio is a real drag. Step up to the basic nav or just go aftermarket.

Despite complaints of high sticker prices, a base $29,995 Wrangler Rubicon is firmly “average” in the new car market according to last year’s sales data. Take solace in the fact that the Wrangler only increased $225 for the Sahara and $175 for the Rubicon vs last year’s model. Our Wrangler was equipped with $2,930 in options including: the $735 hard top, $385 Bluetooth and iPod connectivity, $685 for power windows, locks and mirrors and $1,125 for the automatic transmission.

Toss in the steep $800 destination charge and our Wrangler topped out at $33,725 or about $1,500 less than a similarly configured Toyota FJ cruiser. While I was temped to draw FJ comparisons, the Wrangler is more powerful, smaller, considerably lighter, and is available with a locking front axle for the serious off-roader. In the end, the Wrangler continues to be a unique vehicle in a class all to its own. Despite some serious on-road shortcomings, with the 2012 improvements, the Wrangler has achieved a decent balance of being a passable commute car for the weekend trail warrior.

Jeep provided the vehicle, insurance and one tank of gas for this review.

statistics as tested

0-30 MPH: 2.63 Seconds

0-60 MPH: 7.27 Seconds

1/4 mile: 15.67 Seconds at 86.9 MPH

Observed Fuel Economy: 18.3 MPG over 629 miles

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47 Comments on “Review: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon...”


  • avatar
    threeer

    I’m still having issues accepting a Wrangler with power windows and such…gimme two doors (that have the half-door and zip out windows) and call it done!

    • 0 avatar
      Les

      I test drove a new Wrangler not long ago, the power windows (with switches located on the center dash not the doors) are a must. The doors have gotten thicker in this generation but external dimensions haven’t increased much, the result is it’s next to impossible to operate the manual windows while driving.

  • avatar
    Alex L. Dykes

    If you like the half doors, they are still an option, plastic zipper windows and all. I’ll take automatic climate control in my next Wrangler however.

  • avatar
    TEXN3

    Sounds like a great vehicle now! My favorite off-road capable ute is still the XTerra though, which I have had on the HH SVRA (it was a rental too). I was there working on some environmental feasibility studies for a planned solar farm between there and I-5.

  • avatar
    Speed Spaniel

    Great review! Surprising how nice the interior looks.

  • avatar
    bucksnort

    One thing this new, fancy, upscale, commuter Wrangler has done for me is drive up the used car value of my 2005, old school, roll-up-your-own-damn-window, Rubicon Unlimited. I paid $29,495 for it new. Kelly’s predicts it is now worth $21,340 with 60k miles on it. That’s 72% retained value after 7 years. I tried to find some comps but there were none for sale on AutoTrader or a couple of other sites and I am not selling mine.

    These new higher revving mini-van engines are not as well suited for slow speed off road use as the old in-line 6. Transmissions have also been an issue.

    • 0 avatar

      Based on my limited experience, the case of the old I-6 is somewhat overstated. Even 3.8L is simply a better engine, including the low-end torque. The data is out there. Now the 42RLE may be not the shining star of transmissions, I grant that, although mine was not overheating even while crawling Rio Puerco in the summer without an aux cooler.

      • 0 avatar
        bucksnort

        Give it a few years to observe the reliability. There is no way that new transmission will hold up with regular off road use and I doubt some of the electronics will last. I already know mine will.

        Another issue with the new body style in the mountains where I live is width. I even wish mine was a little skinnier.

      • 0 avatar
        jmo

        “There is no way that new transmission will hold up with regular off road use”

        Yeh, I mean compared to old school Chrysler transmissions the bar is just so darn high. Oh… wait.

      • 0 avatar

        To be entirely honest, the longevity and durability of 42RLE make me think sometimes that I should’ve gotten a manual, even while I lampoon stick-yankers at TTAC every time they rear their heads. Still, it looks like the issues with it are due largely to subcontractors cutting corners. If the same happens to the Merc tranny that the Pentastar JK gets, it’s going to be sad.

      • 0 avatar
        Wheeljack

        Having driven both, I can say that while the 3.8L makes more power on paper, the I-6 has has low-speed flexibility and torque that just can’t be found on the V-6. Yes, the old I-6 runs out of breath at higher RPM and I’ll admit the 3.8L is better suited for the highway than the 4.0L ever could be.

        I’ll add that it doesn’t help that the 2007+ Wranglers all gained a considerable amount of weight in the redesign, so the 3.8L has a lot more mass to haul around.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      bucksnort, I have owned several used Wranglers over the decades and have always been amazed at how well they kept their value based on how much I sold them for.

      In several cases I actually sold them for more than what I paid for it when I bought it from a private party. For many years I used them for mudding along with my 4X4 Scouts and as such I had great exposure to like-minded people at these meets.

      On several occasions people would saunter up to me at these mudders’ events and ask me if I would sell whatever I brought to the meet.

      I’d ask them what it would be worth to them and was always surprised to have them offer me more than what I thought it was worth. I usually sold it, except for one time when I was down to my last Wrangler. I did sell that one a year later when I quit mudding.

  • avatar
    Alex L. Dykes

    Actually compared to the old I6 with the old 4-speed, the new V6/5-speed has much lower ratios, produces more torque at usable ground speeds when in low range and would easily win a tug-of-war with an old I6 Wrangler. Hm, sounds like we should set that up and video!

  • avatar

    I heard that those skidplates are a PITA, but on the other hand, 3.8L had a very naive exhaust routing on the back side of the transmission. That made for an even greater PITA at the time of transmission service. After struggling with different suzes of U-joint extensions and trips to AutoZone, I am going to withhold judgement.

    By the way, taking the roof off is not as difficult as I imagined. Being as tall as I am, I do it without a lift (a good thing too, since I’m a renter and cannot attach the winch to the ceiling of my garage). I crawn on my knees inside the rear area, then lift the roof using my neck and upper back, then put it down on prepared folding chairs. I do suggest enlisting help though. It’s much too easy to damage.

  • avatar
    Zackman

    Are they still stuck with that stupid master clutch slave that you need to pull back the tranny to change it? That’s the main reason I got rid of our 1992 YJ.

    Jeeps sure are fun, though, and a joy to drive, if it weren’t for the lack of fuel economy.

  • avatar
    MarkP

    Most people here don’t remember 1966 Pontiac GTO’s, but in my youth they were pretty hot cars. Now we have Jeeps that can nearly match their performance. Give me a minuute – I have to recalibrate.

  • avatar
    Zackman

    I’m amazed that after all these years, no one has figured out a way to design a no-nonsense, honest-to-goodness folding convertible top for these without having to remove various zippered and snapped panels.

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      I am fairly sure they have, you can buy aftermarket tops that fold more like a regular convertible. They just look dumb, at least on the old models.

      I tested a 4-dr Unlimited when they first came out. The top really isn’t hard to do, and it can fold down pretty quick. The problem is, folding it down also folds the plastic windows, which quickly ruins them. So removing them, although more time consuming, makes them last a lot longer. Regular convertible cars don’t have this problem because they have roll down side windows and much smaller rear windows (or glass ones) that do not have to fold.

      Besides, the entire point of a Jeep is the top stays off, unless it’s raining. And even then, only if its pouring. It is part of the image, and changing it would be the same as changing it to be more like all the other SUVs on the market. I would expect you to appreciate as much as anyone a car that sticks to its roots.

      • 0 avatar
        Zackman

        I certainly do appreciate it, but I’d like to see it get back to basics – they’ve become too “pretty” to actually use it for what it is designed for. Only after it is many years old would I use it to actually go through the woods for fear of scratching and denting it up.

        I still miss my old 1968 C-101 Jeepster Commando at times.

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      To me, the better question would be: Why would I want this? A regular convertible top would add unneeded complexity to the Wrangler and undoubtedly cost more to replace than the current top design. Plus, to mnm4ever’s point, the only way to go is topless in the summer. I run a safari top + tonneau cover and carry a waterproof cab cover in the summer – if it looks like rain is coming, I throw the cab cover on and no worries. If it’s still raining when I have to go somewhere, the safari+tonneau combo is surprisingly effective at keeping water out as long as you are moving.

  • avatar

    I reviewed a Sahara Unlimited (four-door) here a few months ago, and came to similar conclusions: perhaps more comfortable and road-worthy than in the past, but still not a vehicle I’d recommend for strictly on-road use.

    Reliability has been average or better from 2007 on, based on responses to TrueDelta’s Car Reliability Survey. We’ll have some stats for the 2012 in May.

    One problem area with the current generation: some people have had leak and/or rattle issues with the three-piece hard top. One solution: get the soft top.

    Details:

    http://www.truedelta.com/Jeep-Wrangler/reliability-146

    • 0 avatar

      Did you notice that the top is somewhat different in 2012? The rear window is much wider now. I heard that Chrysler ran some kind of a program with the supplier, and there was a noticeable time gap after old tops went off the market and before the new ones started to appear.

      BTW, mine doesn’t leak or rattle, but I saw those complaints. No surprise really, the 3-piece system only works thanks to enormously thick rubber tubes, which meet at the T-intersection in a tricky way. Older jeeps had 1-piece hardtop without this complexity.

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      Michael,

      I’ve driven a 2002 SWB Wrangler, a 2006 LWB Wrangler and a 2011 Wrangler Unlimited on highway trips in excess of 1200 miles on numerous occasions, plus I’ve logged plenty of miles in the older Jeeps in my daily commute and they aren’t as bad as you would think – at least not to me. I guess it’s an individual preference/tolerance issue, but I really enjoy the visceral feeling of the Wrangler. If nothing else, it’s hard to doze off at the wheel in one.

  • avatar
    icemilkcoffee

    The electronic locking diff and rollbar disconnect is awesome.

    One more thing they need to implement is a lock-on-demand auto transmission so you could go down a steep hill with the benefit of engine braking. ABS disable is useful in some situation too

    • 0 avatar
      potatobreath

      I think the hill descent control button is on the centre stack, immediately to the left of the hazard flasher button. There’s a better picture on automotive.com. On the Liberty, it automatically engages when in 4-Lo. The brakes grab automatically to control descent speed.

      http://image.automotive.com/f/2011_jeep_wrangler/2307418339513860873+w500/center-console.jpg

      The autostick feature lets you manually downshift for engine braking. For older transmissions, there’s a Tow/Haul mode button.

    • 0 avatar
      RedStapler

      You can also shift the transfer case into 4-LO to crawl down steep hills. AFAIK any Jeep with ABS putting it in 4-LO disables the ABS and TCS systems.

  • avatar
    willamettejd

    I think the comment that $30K is now “average” for a new car is a bit misleading. Median would be a better measure. The average is being pulled constantly upward by the $50-100k low volume luxury and exotics, while there are no $5000 new cars out there to balance out the bell curve. I would think the median sale price lands more in the $22-25K range, where most shoppers get a nice mix of features.

  • avatar
    AMC_CJ

    With my 1983 CJ7, and 06′ Liberty CRD, I already have the absolute best of both worlds.

    They can keep this one, at least until it gets a real truck engine.

  • avatar
    Junebug

    OK, just for kicks – say my youngest daughter STILL wants a Jeep when she gets her drivers license (2014), I don’t know a lot about them but here’s a few things I’ve picked up:
    they hold their value very well
    they suck on the hignway
    buy stock in BP
    they sure look cool in the summer with the top off

    If, she still wants one and IF I can afford it, wouldn’t it sensible to just get a Sahara with the nice options since the most “off-roading” she’ll do is some neighbors gravel driveway.

    And IF she DOES decide to play in the dirt, then don’t all serious off roaders modify the shit out of them anyway? so even a Rubicon would go under the knife – correct?

    Thanks

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      Not necessarily. You would be shocked at what a stock Wrangler (especially a Rubicon) is capable of with a competent driver behind the wheel and a good spotter on the trail.

  • avatar
    grzydj

    Jeep CJ/Wrangler people are completely and utterly insane in a harmless amusing sort of way. Just look at the commentary that has been posted here, on a non-Jeep site about this particular variation of the Jeep.

    CJ drivers balked at the YJ Wrangler, then YJ Wranglers balked at TJs and JKs ad nauseum.

    Each variation has of the Jeep has made compromises to appeal to the masses or to appeal to the hardcore off-roader.

    With the current lineup, you can get a bare bones model with a soft top, steel wheels and a steering wheel on the cheap. You can also opt for a Rubicon like the one Alex test drove and go over things never before thought possible with a stock Jeep.

    Jeep could have done things to tame the Wrangler down significantly the way Toyota did with the bloated IFS FJ.

    I think this rig still offers a lot of fun for the money with an engine that is just getting started in terms of its performance. It is ready for direction injection and forced induction, something we could see down the (off)road in the not too distant future perhaps.

  • avatar
    jandrews

    I’m pretty much lost these days as to who new Jeeps are built for.

    Don’t get me wrong, I know who they *sell to*: Suburbanite Cool Moms, Frat Boys, and the “Outdoorsy Type” that goes camping or to the beach on the weekend.

    Actual Wheelers are going to ignore these things until they’re fully depreciated, then pick them up for a song, bolt 1-ton axles with 37+ inch tires underneath them, and go offroad. And they’re certainly not going to give a shit about interior appointments in their trail-raisin; it’s about to roll end over end down a rocky hill anyway.

    Average American Family doesn’t like the ride, the gas mileage, the road noise, the handling, and the removable top means your little stick-figure-family stickers aren’t visible in convertible mode. For shame.

    The former group knows better, and the latter group buys the image before passing it on to the former after a few years.

    Marketing genius?

    Also, Alex, we really need to talk:

    - TPMS because you want to know if you have a flat while rock crawling? C’mon buddy.

    - Describing Dana 44 axles as heavy duty? C’mon buddy.

    - 32″ Tires “large”? C’mon buddy. (I also especially like that they are BF Goodrich’s original KM mud tire, which is notorious for paper thin sidewalls and shredding during even moderate use. But that’s a level of esoteric trivia I’m willing to forgive you for not knowing).

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      Go spend some time over at JeepForum. There are quite a few people who buy brand new Wranglers then proceed to abuse them offroad. I’ll admit that I’d have a hard time beating on a brand new $30K+ vehicle though…

      • 0 avatar
        jandrews

        Buying brand new, modifying heavily and taking to the trail is nothing new.

        The point there would be the modification. Anyone “wheeling” a stock Jeep (or any vehicle this side of a Unimog), regardless of trim level, is

        a) wheeling the bunny slopes

        or

        b) not wheeling at all, and thinks dirt roads with a rock here and there qualifies.

        Either way, that’s kind of my point: I’m not sure who Wranglers are made for *from factory*. I very much know where they end up in the wild.

    • 0 avatar
      Alex L. Dykes

      Remember the theme of the review was for the shopper who buys a Wrangler as commuter car. In this light a 32-inch tire is large and TMPS is handy.

      • 0 avatar
        mistrernee

        The TPMS is hilarious.. anything under 30 psi sets it off, maybe more. The recommended tire pressure is 35. A cold snap sets it off.

        The temp dropping to less than 10 C caused the sensor to trip, I’ll probably be deflating them when it warms up again and the heat causes the pressure to build in the tire. I don’t know what rock crawlers run their tires at, but I assume (wrongly?) that it isn’t 35 psi. For a commuter in a more stable climate this might be acceptable though, for anyone where it gets cold out the TPMS going off will become a regular occurrence.

        Without an actual readout of the pressure in each tire the TPMS is easily ignored, defeating the purpose of the system. I lived with the bong for a month or so before breaking down and adding a couple psi to every tire.

        To be fair, the Jeep isn’t the only car I’ve driven that has done this.

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        ……I lived with the bong for a month or so before breaking down ……

        I lived with a bong in college, too

      • 0 avatar

        My frame label says 40 psi.

      • 0 avatar
        jandrews

        mistrernee -

        Tire pressure off road is subject to a lot of variables. In pure rockcrawling, you want significant deformation of the tire over rock obstacles to increase contact and traction as well as help cushion the ride.

        However, at the same time, lower pressures result in increased chance of losing a tire bead.

        Therefore, a lot depends on tire brand, wheel brand, and thus sidewall stiffness and whether or not beadlock wheels are in play. I’ve seen more than one buggy with beadlock wheels running 0 psi for maximum grab because they can.

        If you’re still reliant upon air pressure to keep your tire bead, anything from 10 to 20 psi is common.

  • avatar
    mistrernee

    I’m thinking of unloading my 2010 2 door sport because of a couple of issues:

    -6 speed is clunky and throttle response is beyond poor, making driving the stick frustrating. No reverse lockout and poorly defined gates means the odd attempt to shift into reverse at 100+ km/h…. This is a big problem when I’ve had to downshift to 4th (haha.. I mean 3rd) to get up a hill and suddenly need 6th again when cresting the top of the hill. Reverse is right next to 6th and when I am in a hurry to conserve momentum/fuel/hearing the gear box gets very annoying.

    -window cranks dig into knee, guess I should have got power windows. If I got power windows I might have gotten the ten dollars of parts that make the cruise control work.

    -rear seat doesn’t lock into place when folded forward, so it just sort of flops around in the back.

    -Steam bellows out of the radiator grill after going through a car wash/heavy rain… actually I find it kind of funny but I am sure everyone around me is thinking “What a pos, Guess I won’t be buying a Jeep”.

    but most of all:

    -The nearly flat windshield is a rock magnet. On one trip down the highway in winter conditions I got 8 big rock chips on top of the hundreds of smaller chips all over the windshield.. It’s pretty much shot after 13,000 kms.

    -The stock final drive ratio (3.23:1 on the base Wrangler Sport iirc) is embarrassing and would neuter a hemi. 4th,5th and 6th might as well be the same gear once you get a small head wind at highway speeds. I swear my 83 Toyota 22R had more balls than this Jeep does.

    How many of these problems does the new one fix? It’s a weekend toy for the most part, other than the odd run to the store. My plan was to use it for trips for when I can’t ride the motorcycle, but the disintegrating windshield is, while not that expensive, REALLY ANNOYING.. I was screaming at anyone that passed me, how dare they! *CRACK*

    Not a very relaxing car trip.

  • avatar

    If anyone wants to buy a JEEP WRANGLER CALL OF DUTY SPECIAL EDITION, I’m selling one.

  • avatar
    AJ

    Nice review. Now that Rubi just needs a lift and some larger tires to really have fun, that it fun is being off-road. Too many guys I know or have met never even take their JKs on a dirt road. What a shame.

    Anyway, I could almost see buying a JK Rubi, but I’ve got too much time, money and love into my TJ. Wranglers are the best convertible, and especially when roaming around God’s country.

  • avatar
    FJ60LandCruiser

    the last of the legends is close to death. i assumed the demise was when they either put a V6 under the hood or when they put the mirrors on the doors (so if you decided to take the doors off you were technically breaking the law in some jurisdictions). a jeep to me is no doors, bikini top over the driver and passenger, 2 doors–but the prior gen 2-door unlimited was a great scrambler remix.

    if they ever sell the mil-spec heep with the heavy duty axles, diesel, and two-door ute variant, i might get one. but this car has been the darling of rich high school girls and poser boys with circus lifts.


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