By on January 27, 2012

Tom Carpenter, co-owner of Auto Center Southeast in Groveport, OH, had three Saturn dealerships. In 2009, GM euthanized Saturn, and Carpenter had to look for new cars to sell. Now, he is looking again.

Last August, Carpenter signed up for a Saab franchise. Carpenter “was aware of the manufacturer’s financial concerns but thought it was on solid ground,” says the Columbus Dispatch. Saab’s production lines had not been moving since April.

That enormous leap of faith was unrewarded. In December, Saab filed for bankruptcy. Carpenter was “not ready to say the brand is dead,” wrote the paper last December. Carpenter joined the ranks of the Saab faithful who hoped for a white knight.

On January 23, Saab Cars North America was liquidated. Saab of Columbus  has 18 new Saabs on the lot, and 2 used ones. In a final closeout sale, no reasonable offer will be refused.

Scott Carpenter is looking for new cars to sell. For the second time in two years.

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74 Comments on “America’s Unluckiest Car Dealer: From Saturn To Saab...”


  • avatar
    stryker1

    Lets keep it going. Do Mitsubishi next!

    • 0 avatar

      I think he also already owns one of those. Most of the linked article is behind a paywall but it says, “He secured Mitsubishi franchises for his …”.

      • 0 avatar

        Robert, please edit that down. I appreciate your effort but policy here is that you can’t cut and paste entire articles in comments (unless you own the copyright). Bertel deleted a comment the other day that did something similar. The relevant paragraph would be sufficient. Thanks.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Ronnie, my motor city, tri-county cohort,

        Is it sealed in stone now that anyone buying one of these ‘new’ Saabs will be left to their own resourcefulness should anything break or go wrong with their vehicle?

        I’ve read so many conflicting things, but it’s my understanding that no company is going to assume responsibility for warranty claims, even in the slight chance that some entity does come along at a very late stage and revives Saab, post-bankruptcy.

        Saab just liquidated their Royal Oak, Michigan North American HQ. Sad events.

      • 0 avatar

        DeadWeight,

        I would think that dealers would try to arrange some kind of warranty coverage through the companies that sell extended warranties and the like. I’d guess it’d be expensive, but from published reports Saab Parts has the parts and it’s not part (no pun intended) of the bankruptcy. As far as Bertel’s report on Saab pulling the plug on online support, this is what a current Saab dealer told me:

        Concerning repairs – since the launch of the all new 9-5 and 9-4X, Saab dealers use Saab’s IRIS System to access GM’s MDI system for all repairs (e.g., check engine lights, security systems, reprogramming). There has been no interruption in this service.

        The older platform cars (9-3 and 9-5) Saab dealers use Saab’s Tech II hand held system – that updates through IRIS. No problems here.

        Key is Saab’s IRIS system – without which we can’t repair (or order) anything.

        GM dealers can hook up the new 9-5 and 9-4X to GM’s Global Connect, but it doesn’t recognize unique Saab VIN’s. I anticipate GM allowing their dealers full access to these VIN’s in the near future as more Saab dealers close (its likely a 10 minute program change).

        So if a third party warranty company is willing to run the numbers actuarially, and can price it accordingly, they should be able to keep getting Saabs repaired.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Thanks.

        It would make sense to source GM dealerships to provide warranty work.

        The fact that this would be a non-factory warranty, akin to an aftermarket one, is very scary, however.

      • 0 avatar
        Robert Schwartz

        I would love to help you with the editing Ronnie, but as it has been more than an hour I can’t. Anybody with the keys to this thing who wants to whack at it, should do so.

      • 0 avatar

        I hate cleaning up other people’s messes. Again I had to delete a comment that was a copypaste from another article. Link, yes. Quote a paragraph, yes. Copypaste the whole thing – no.

        If it happens gain, the copypaster will be banned.

        Remember: The comment section is for YOUR comments, not for comments borrowed from somewhere else.

      • 0 avatar
        Robert Schwartz

        That is really kind of harsh Bertle: I was just trying to help Ronnie.

      • 0 avatar
        acuraandy

        +1 Herr Schmitt.

    • 0 avatar
      icemilkcoffee

      It’s not too late to sign up for a Smart dealership!

    • 0 avatar
      skotastic

      Why are you cheering for fewer car companies in the USA????

      Too many to choose from?

      Well, I suppose there are good reason to hope Mitsubishi and Suzuki go next.

      1. They employ Americans – which of course is a bad thing

      2. When we are down to 2-3 monster companies, the consumer will always benefit through lessened competition and reduced need to innovate.

      I hope all the small guys survive – as long as they arn’t running a massive debt by selling in the USA, there’s nothing wrong with keeping a tiny slice of the market.

      • 0 avatar
        wsn

        “1. They employ Americans – which of course is a bad thing”

        If Mitshbishi is gone, those laid off can probably find new jobs with Toyota/Honda. The number of jobs is determined by the total consumer demand, and has very little to do with the number of manufactures.

  • avatar
    JoelW

    Mmmmmmmm….. I hear there are some Suzuki franchises up for grabs!!

  • avatar
    Educator(of teachers)Dan

    Any deeply discounted “Troll-blazers” left over?

  • avatar
    Robert.Walter

    Is he desperately trying to find something to keep his people employed, or is he just a very bad businessman?

    • 0 avatar
      moedaman

      Sounds like a guy who didn’t do much research. Did he inherit his money because he sounds too stupid to have made enough on his own to have any dealerships. He probably went with Saab because they gave him a great deal. Well, now he knows why. I would feel sorry for him, but he is probably one of the few people out there who didn’t know that Sabb was a “dead man walking”.

  • avatar
    relton

    In teh small town where I grew up, the Edsel dealer was so angry with Ford that when Edsel went kaput, he went with Studebaker.

    A few years later he saw the light, took up with Ford, and is still in business.

    Bob

    • 0 avatar
      Robert Schwartz

      Yes, but he maybe kicking himself. When Studebaker stopped making new cars in 1966, they transferred the dealer relationships to Mercedes Benz, which was looking to broaden its distribution in the US. Many of the Studebaker dealers made a lot of money selling Mercedes Benz over the years. It might not have been a good move in some rural areas, but it was good in my vicinity.

      • 0 avatar
        Acd

        Actually Studebaker-Packard set up Mercedes-Benz Sales Corp. to distribute Mercedes-Benz cars in 1957 and many of those early Mercedes dealers were Studebaker and Packard dealers. When Daimler-Benz bought back the distribution rights from Studebaker-Packard in 1965 then kept about 195 of them when they set up Mercedes-Benz USA in 1965. Other Studebaker dealers signed up for a little Japanese brand that was trying to establish itself in the USA after only selling 287 cars from 1957 to 1960: Toyota.

      • 0 avatar
        fincar1

        I do know that the Studebaker dealer who had an enlarged, converted service station in Auburn became a Mercedes dealer – and eventually also a Toyota dealer – in Tacoma, and was very successful for years. I suspect he was far from the only one to make this transition.

  • avatar
    roger628

    In Canada we used to have Saturn-Saab-Isuzu dealers-the trifecta!

  • avatar
    92golf

    Here in Canada where I live the dealership that sold these brands was a Saturn/Saab/Isuzu dealer. Tough business.

  • avatar
    lw

    I smell the need for a Federal bailout!

    Can we categorize the failure of a car company as a Green energy initiative and slide a few billion across the table to help out guys like this?

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Obama could call it TARP-2.

      I read somewhere that we’re still $132Billion light in bail-out repayments, and that GM may end up costing us more than $70Billion before all the crying is done.

      I wonder if a study has ever been done that details how many other businesses went belly-up in spite of all these ill-advised bail-outs, hand-outs and nationalization? My guess is that number would be far greater than the recipients of the bail-out funds.

      Problem is, 2012 is going to be a major make-or-break year for many business, including new-car dealerships even if the SAAR turns out to be 14M in 2012.

  • avatar
    graham

    Maybe he’d be interested in a Mahindra franchise??

    And I hate to nit-pick, but please explain to me how this is a proper sentence: “Last August, Saab’s production lines had not been moving since April, Carpenter signed up for a Saab franchise.”

  • avatar
    NormSV650

    I was just by there on MLK day. Doesn’t look like the sold many since then. Mostly used cars on the lot as we all know why Steve Lang is not in the new car business. More money to be made with used cars as they are more difficult to cross shop than new.

  • avatar
    alluster

    The saab pictured above is hot. Like a cross between a Land Rover and the Current Equinox. Its a shame that cars like that have to die while abominations like the Crosstour, Venza and turds like the CR-V and lexus RX can live on. I am not very hopeful for the future of this country WRT to automotive tastes. Good designers are going to not care anymore. What is the point of coming up with great designs like the G8, 9-4X, older gen TL and others when they are all canned in a few years.

  • avatar
    johnhowington

    i have been trolling the austin saab dealer inventory website a few times the last few weeks. they are selling (or trading) them off, very slowly but it is happening.

  • avatar
    Dave M.

    and turds like the CR-V and lexus RX can live on

    Hundreds of thousands of people disagree with you. You know, the ones that put their money where their mouth is. Unlike Saab 9-4 fans.

    • 0 avatar
      dejal1

      Through end of month Oct. 2011, 194 Saabistas bought the 9-4 “The non-turd mobile”.

      194 9-4s. Other manufactures can lose that many units and not miss them. It is a shame that there was only 194 people in the whole world to have the taste and wisdom to purchase the non-turd mobile.

      Saabistas think the world owes them something. I get the impression that they believe that they are superior to everyone else.

      Maybe there should have been an ad campaign “The 9-4, the non-turd choice for people that know turds”.

      • 0 avatar
        jjf

        Wow my next door neighbor just bought a new 9-4 in December. She traded in her 10 year old 9-3 sedan. I had to get up close to it to figure out what it was. So at least 195 were sold.

  • avatar
    spyked

    So sad about SAAB. Fact is, the current 9-5 and 9-4X models were the best looking cars in their segments, period.

    Don’t feel too sorry for the dealer guy though. His JOB is to sell cars. Maybe if he and the other dealers would have sold cars instead of keeping them on the lots, SAAB and Saturn (and his money) wouldn’t be in this situation.

  • avatar
    DC Bruce

    Have to agree a bit with “Spyked.” I surfed on over to the dealer’s website and saw that he’s just posting photos of new inventory with MSRP displayed and “no reasonable offer refused.” What kind of B.S. is that?

    Jeez, guy, you’re selling orphan cars, without a warranty and with likely significant issues even getting repair parts. If you actually want to sell something, put a price on the hood that makes me interested, even if you want to leave in some wiggle room to negotiate.

    That’s what the guy is Boston is doing.

    I dunno, maybe this guy is too stuck on Saturn’s “we sell at sticker price” policy. We all know how that turned out for Saturn.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      I dunno, maybe this guy is too stuck on Saturn’s “we sell at sticker price” policy.

      I would presume that most of the dealers have floorplan carried by GMAC. Meanwhile, there are no incentives or holdback to collect.

      Ultimately, whoever lent on the floorplan is going to have to cut the dealers a break by writing down their loans. Assuming that the dealers have separate SAAB entities that could be put into bankruptcy, it would behoove the lenders to cut deals with these guys so that aren’t stuck with repossessing a bunch of orphaned vehicles.

      • 0 avatar
        fvfvsix

        I have it on good authority that SAAB cars NA was cutting deals with dealers on inventory that amounted to “half now, half later” since Ally/GMAC/whichever bank was reluctant to lend much to acquire new SAAB inventory.

        I would assume that the liquidators have completely written these dealer inventory costs off, so there may be some tremendous deals to be had.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        I have it on good authority that SAAB cars NA was cutting deals with dealers on inventory that amounted to “half now, half later” since Ally/GMAC/whichever bank was reluctant to lend much to acquire new SAAB inventory.

        Was SAAB NA providing the floorplan? I would think that they wouldn’t have had the money for that (assuming that the mothership back in Europe was getting paid for its sales.)

        If this correct, then a smart dealer would be wise not to pay them anything, since the SAAB NA unit is going to file bankruptcy, and it is most likely going to be liquidated: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1072065_saab-cars-north-america-to-be-liquidated

  • avatar
    icemilkcoffee

    Then again- people who had Hyundai/KIA dealerships 10 years ago were thought of as fools too.

  • avatar
    carve

    Doesn’t sound like he’s a very good businessman.

    He’s now advertising…

    “No Reasonable Offer Refused”

    Well, if he was in the habit of refusing reasonable offers in the past, it may’ve been another one of his problems.

    No idea why a salesman would refuse an offer he thought was reasonable.

    • 0 avatar

      You refuse a reasonable offer if you think the customer is willing to pay more. Reasonable offers are for clearance sales. Otherwise you want to maximize your profits.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Glassman Saab in Southfield, Michigan was selling any new Saab on their lot back in November for a straightforward $10,000 off the window sticker.

        When they first advertised it, I think they had about 24 vehicles on their lot.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Glassman Saab in Southfield, Michigan was selling any new Saab on their lot back in November for a no straightforward $10,000 off the window sticker.

        Back in November, the dealer would have been paid a holdback, and there were probably incentives from the manufacturer.

        Now that Saab has filed bankruptcy, there aren’t going to be any incentives or holdbacks. If the dealer sells the car for less than invoice + accrued interest, the difference has to come out of the dealer’s pocket. Not much reason to sell at a discount until the floorplan lender agrees to take a haircut.

  • avatar

    Numerous dealers are holding real steady on pricing now and refusing to move. Many are liquidating. It looks like new Saabs are going to be available for quite some months into the future.

    • 0 avatar
      Acd

      Part of the problem is that the dealer will have to write the bank a much larger check to pay off the floorplan loan than what he will receive as payment when he sells the car at retail. Example: a car with a $33000 MSRP may have an invoice of $30000 which is the amount the dealer’s bank wrote a check for when the dealer bought the car from the manufacturer or importer. For the dealer to sell the car for any less than $30000 the dealer will have to reach into his cash flow for the difference to pay off the loan when he sells the car. Obviously a new car from a manufacturer that is in the process of being liquidated and has no warranty isn’t worth anywhere near MSRP or even invoice. For the dealer in the short term it may be better for his cash flow to continue to pay the interest on the floorplan instead of losing thousands of dollars by having to pay off the loan. He also may be banking on demand increasing once it becomes more clear if parts will continue to be available.

      • 0 avatar
        skor

        @Acd, That’s it exactly. It’s like being upside down on your home mortgage. The bank doesn’t care how much you sell your house for, as long as you pay off the balance on the mortgage. Do you owe, $500K on the mortgage, but no one will pay more than $400K for the house? The bank will be very happy to settle the mortgage…..if you are willing to fish the $100K balance out of your own pocket. Most people just walk away.

        Same here, I’ll bet that the the offers he gets won’t even cover what he owes on the floor plan. I really doubt any dealer will make up the balance he owes on the floor plan. In the end, if the dealers can’t get a write down on the floor plan, they will just walk away. The finance company will take possession of the cars and have them crushed, and write off the entire mess. For those of you who think you’ll be getting a new car for $5K, keep dreaming.

      • 0 avatar
        skor

        @baggins, Because no one in the auto industry wants to see that. No one wants to see new cars sold for $5K. Not the dealers, not the car companies, not the finance people, no one. Like poster TriShield wrote, if they can’t get something like a new car price, they will put those cars into customer loaner pools, give them to employees at company cars…anything rather than sell them for $5 to dreamers like you who have been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh about “free markets”. Worse comes to worse, they will have those cars crushed.

        I have a close friend who was lead tech at a local Chrysler dealer. For years Chrysler was trying to close this particular store because it wasn’t on a main highway, they wanted to get rid of all the stores that were on Main St. At Chrysler’s insistence, the owner spend BIG bucks to refurbish the store….expanded marble clad showroom, brand new 12 bay shop, etc. When the rumors of bankruptcy started they told the owner, “Oh, no, you’re good, your stores is going to be OK. When the death list came out, guess whose name was on it.

        The dealer declared bankruptcy and liquidated. They had dozens of dreamers, like you, who would walk into the showroom, point at a loaded crew-cab Ram with a $45K sticker and say, “I’ve got $5K cash in my pocket I’ll give you for that Ram.” EVERY ONE, of those dreamers was laughed at and shown the door. The store owner sold almost all his inventory at a small profit, what was left over was sold to a wholesaler. NOT A SINGLE CAR WAS SOLD TO DREAMER/SCHEMERS FOR $5K, irrespective of what Rush Limbaugh tells you.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        skor, you sound as if you are pretty naive yourself on the ways & means of business, to be brutally honest.

        I know many, many people, including sophisticated buyers, some of whom are independent contractors in the construction trade (buying a sole vehicle for themselves) who have been able to pick up brand new vehicles for as much as 35% off the MSRP in the last 3 years.

        There were people I DIDN’T KNOW who were buying new Nissan Titans for 25% off sticker just two 1/2 years ago with zero haggling.

        I purchased my last vehicle, which has a window sticker of $29,xxxish for less than just under 22k, plus tax, title and plate fee (no trade in, no money down, no games). That’s 25% off sticker, and that was DURING GOOD ECONOMIC TIMES, back in late 2005.

        You not only sound like you have some axe to grind, if you actually believe what you’re saying, you are clueless, politics aside (and I’m a completely independent for the record).

        The only thing I’d agree with you on is that someone who shows up at a Dodge dealer and offers to buy a new 45k Ram for 5k is a moron, no matter how bad things are, and they should be shown the door (whether they should be “laughed at” is up to individual judgment and decorum).

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        I know many, many people, including sophisticated buyers, some of whom are independent contractors in the construction trade (buying a sole vehicle for themselves) who have been able to pick up brand new vehicles for as much as 35% off the MSRP in the last 3 years.

        Those types of discounts are usually supported by incentives, including factory-to-dealer incentives. The consumer doesn’t necessarily see it, but the loss is being taken by the manufacturer.

        With Saab, there is no manufacturer to pay the incentives to support the price cut. The inventory that is sitting on a dealer’s lot almost surely was financed with a floorplan.

        For the Saab dealers, this situation is very much like the homeowner who is upside down on his mortgage. The need to repay the debt, but without any manufacturer money to cover the shortfall, is going to constrain discounting until the lender agrees to take the hit. GMAC had an agreement with the Spyker-era post-GM Saab to provide floorplan, so the discounting is generally going to have to come from them.

    • 0 avatar

      There’s probably less than 15 dealerships nationwide liquidating everything. Everyone else is hanging tough on their pricing and inventory.

      Many dealerships I’ve been in contact with are taking all of their new Saab inventory and putting them into their own company or customer loaner pools instead of losing money on selling them. Then they’ll resell them in a year or two as used and can apparently benefit that way tax-wise.

      I was going to snag one and instead of coming down to some other dealership’s liquidation prices they have just taken them off the market entirely with that explanation.

      • 0 avatar
        baggins

        Skor

        To quote Seinfeld,I am pretty sure you dont know what “write off” means.

        If the finance co can auction them for even 1/2 MSRP, why would they send them to crusher?

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      pch, I agree with what you’re saying with respect to Saab, at this time.

      skor at least implied, and I’d claim he expressed outright, that very significant discounts off of window prices can’t be had routinely, regarding established brands in normalized course of business.

      The only vehicles that dealers aren’t willing to significantly discount, especially at times when they had to make their numbers (such as year end), based on my experience, are those that are in short supply due to enthusiast demand (Evolutions/WRX STIs/etc.) or specialty demand (particular heavy duty light trucks with turbodiesel engines, for instance), premium luxury vehicles such as the Mercedes S Class where heavy discounting would clearly damage brand perception, or obviously, the truly rare exotic class, along the lines of a Ferrari F430, where most of the vehicles are spoken for before they’re even offloaded dockside.

  • avatar
    Conslaw

    There’s always Fisker.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    What’s really sad is that I actually liked a couple of the new Saabs, including the 9-5 and the 9-4x.

    I understand that they were GM vehicles, at their core, essentially, but for some reason, the 9-5 appealed to me more than its Buick counterpart, and the 9-4x, especially, seemed to ride nicer and be stitched together a wee bit better than the Cadillac SRX.

    But this guy can’t catch a break.

    I hope he hasn’t signed any documents to be a Fiat dealer, to be stuck in the weeds if the 500 and its newly arrived sportier versions don’t see some dramatic lift in sales.

    The truly sad part of all of this is that he’s an example of someone who didn’t get backstopped by government, as so many players and friends of Hank Paulson, Ben Bernanke & Timothy Geithner did over there on Wall Street (the firms that gamed the system, bought zillions of insurance policies out on those were about to be murdered by the induced financial crisis – that had Hank Paulson claiming in massive hyperbolic tone that the world would end if he didn’t get a blank check bailout fund from the taxpayers – and then they lit a match and torched the system to collect on those policies).

    Maybe the real lesson here is not to take risks unless you are assured of a taxpayer guaranteed bailout, no matter how insane your risk/reward model is (as in one can’t lose no matter what).

    • 0 avatar
      johnhowington

      I agree, the 9-5 is very sharp looking, and it is too bad they did not influence GM styling more. the 9-4 is a very classic design too, but instead we get the blocky GMC Terrain.

      • 0 avatar
        Sam P

        There’s the Chevy Equinox, which has a bit of Lexus RX to its looks. It is a Terrain without the fugly styling.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        Actually we get the Cadillac SRX, which is a 9-4x with a superior engine. SRX’s were offered with the 3 liter NA engine and the 2.8 turbo that were offered in the 9-4x, but nobody wanted them so GM dropped them from the SRX and limited the 9-4x to their use. As for the styling differences, they don’t extend to anything structural or greenhouse related. The Saab was styled to resemble the 9-2x, particularly in the way it was painted and trimmed to pull the C-pillar and rear roof overhang together. I guess Saab’s stylists liked Subaru’s work.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    Good point.

  • avatar
    acuraandy

    Most of the old Saturn dealers here in MN went to either ‘Motor Trend Certified!’ used or Suzuki/Mitsu. A couple ditched GM entirely and went with Kia.

    If this guy has any business sense at all, he’d do the same. (Kia)
    Dump the Swedes and GM outright. Cut your losses. Go where the volume is, and that, despite my Honda bias is, (at the moment) Hyundai/Kia.

  • avatar
    Patrickj

    Saturn dealer nearest me went to Kia.

  • avatar

    The Saturn dealer closest to me in the Phoenix area became a Volkswagen dealer and built a new Audi showroom right across the street.

  • avatar
    GS650G

    Tom should start selling Fiats, his luck has to change some day.

  • avatar
    Joe McKinney

    The Saturn dealership in my hometown is closed and the property is for sale. This location was previously occupied by the local AMC dealer. Over the years a bunch of orphan brands were sold here – Rambler, AMC, Renault, Eagle and Saturn.

  • avatar
    Rental Man

    When Saturn was closing shop I saw some Kia Borrego apear on the grass of Saturn of West Nyack, NY. Being that the only other 2009 Kia Borrego were just sitting in Port Newark, NJ for months (until Enterprise RAC just took them all) I had a feeling they were not waiting for GM to sell Saturn to Penske and just went and got the 1st shingle avalible.
    Fast forward Saturn is gone and Kia was the best thing that place could have hoped for.
    I’m still sad about SAAB. Never had one of my own. There is something about them.

  • avatar
    gslippy

    My local megadealer used to be the largest Pontiac dealer in the world. They also sold Saturn, Hummer, Oldsmobile, and yes, Saab.

    But don’t worry, they also sell Hyundai, Subaru, Kia, Nissan, Infiniti, Cadillac, Buick, GMC, Volkswagen, and Fiat (hmmm). But these are not all centrally located. Hyundai, Kia, and Subaru helped them survive Carmageddon 2009.

    It’s worth noting that they even had a special Hummer building constructed, and I’m sure they paid handsomely for the Fiat franchise. However, the Fiat lot is where they used to have Subaru. They have an interesting habit of relocating the dealerships for certain brands. Their Subaru and Hyundai locations have all been in at least 3 places.

    The only thing I’ve ever bought from them is repair parts… maybe a whole car someday.

    http://www.cochran.com/

    • 0 avatar
      geozinger

      Oh man, the old Cochran Pontiac!

      I remember that place. An old girlfriend bought her first new car there. It was a Pontiac Firebird Sun Bird. All yellow. Inside and out, event the snowflake wheels.

  • avatar
    jeff_vader

    No sympathy from me I’m afraid. Anyone could have seen that Muller was never going to make Saab work, so to tie your wagon that particular one trick pony was never going to be a good idea.


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