By on December 11, 2011

“So what exactly do you suggest, that we sit around here and post absolutely nothing because we might not want to fuel the flame??? I for one find this very interesting and will continue to report on things that […]”

Saabsunited Chief Tim Rokka on December 10, 2011

 “SaabsUnited will just as a few months ago when the politics surrounding Saab started to get out of hand, take a step back to observe rather than report on what is going on. We will continue to report on facts and about issues we find fun and beneficial for the Saab Community!”

Saabsunited Chief Tim Rokka on December 10, 2011, after wiping days of reporting and hundreds of comments from the blog, leaving space for reports on brake kits, Saabs at the Nobel ceremony,  and lighting the candle in Paris.

 

 

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23 Comments on “Quote Of The Day: Victor Muller On Line One...”


  • avatar
    Dave M.

    1. We got this. We’re helping. We’ll make it happen. THEY BETTER LISTEN TO US.
    2. We fucked this up royally by outrageous, stupid comments about dynamics we have no experience with. Later.

    I’m a Saabista, but I have one foot planted in reality (mostly). I was comically appalled at some of the comments over at SU, including the one where the commenter said he was on his way to buy a new ZR-1 but changed direction that moment and bought a new 911 Carrera because GM wouldn’t let Saab go.

  • avatar
    65corvair

    If I were a loyal Saab person, I would have wanted Saab to be done years ago when they stopped making real Saabs. As a Corvair owner I’m glad GM didn’t make a third generation Corvair in 1970. We know ir would have been bad.

  • avatar
    mulled whine

    Orders from on high, perhaps. If Heer Muller was on line one telling them to cool it, I can imagine Herr Lofalk was on line two , and not for a chat about brake discs.

    High emotions, and swimming in the deep end of a shark infested pool, do not, a happy ending make.

  • avatar
    JTP

    SU has always been a place for Saabinistas but since Steven Wade turned it over to Tim Rokka it has really changed. Swade was biased towards Saab as you would expect from an enthusiast site but welcomed opposing viewpoints. Since Rokka took over you either agree with him or get deleted. Sad.

  • avatar
    Paddan

    I recall a few weeks ago that comments which were critical of this website or its editors were similarly deleted. And the editors of this website have every right to do so, just as they do over at SU.

    • 0 avatar

      Excuse me, when and where was that?

      Anybody is free to be critical of this website. If you say “TTAC sucks,” that’s your opinion, it will stay. If one of our writers says that the Frammel GTX is a gift from God, and you say no, it is horrible – no problem. If you say “you moron, the Frammel GTX is horrible,” you are out.

      What does not go here are personal attacks, neither on authors nor on other commenters.

      What we also don’t like is to be told what to write or what not to write.

      We write it, or not. You read it, or not.

      As long as basic rules of civility are met, anything goes here.

      If you can say it into the other guy’s face without flinching or being endangered of getting hit or sued, you can say it.

      Overstep the basic rules of civility, and you are out.

      It’s like a dinner party. Lively discussion is welcome. Insulting, or attacking other guests or the host, rude behavior is not welcome. Would you expect to get another invitation after you had said: “Your house must have been decorated by a blind man, and speaking of taste, your wife should eat less?”

      People who have a hard time understanding the difference will not be invited back.

      We hear again and again that what sets us apart from other sites is the high level and civility of the discussions. We want to keep it that way.

      • 0 avatar
        Troll

        I don’t agree that you leave posts that are critical. I replyed to the Daily Saab below with some facts regarding the people who works there and that they will not get a lot payed as unemployed in Sweden but my post was removed. I was not rude in anyway.

        http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/11/our-daily-saab-no-salaries-blame-the-chinese-and-a-duncecap-for-saabsunited/

        If you write these hard words every day where you only focus on the negative parts of Saab/SWAN, you must accept some negative feedback aswell. Otherwise, close comment as SaabsUnited has done when it comes to company related info.

      • 0 avatar
        Ingvar

        And when there are positive parts to report on the Saab/Swan issue, I’m sure that TTAC will report them.

      • 0 avatar

        @Troll: That comment is there.

        @Ingvar: I’m sure we will.

      • 0 avatar
        Seán Moloney

        “What does not go here are personal attacks, neither on authors nor on other commenters”

        BUT, I see it is perfectly fine to personally attack the author/s of another blog. Sorry, but isn’t that a double standard?

      • 0 avatar
        Paddan

        @ BS – you made my point by confirming the policy.

      • 0 avatar

        I am glad everybody is happy. There is a FAQ and Terms Of Service everybody who posts here agreed to. It’s all in there.

  • avatar
    SilverHawk

    Until the drama surrounding the GM sale of Saab, Saabsunited was your normal fan site, providing a good place to discuss all aspects of their favorite brand. Since the sale, Tim Rokka & Co. have chosen to devote every waking minute to the defense of the new ownership. With a total lack of understanding as to how the industry works, they have, time and again, embarrassed themselves in defense of the embarrassments that Muller has put the brand through. Rokka obviously believed that he had no choice but to support the current regime in the interest of Saab’s survival, above everything else. Maybe down deep inside, he felt the new owner was financially at risk from the very start, and the business plan was flawed. Only he knows. I really hope so, because they have turned the site into a Victor Muller fanzine, with diminishing relevance to the Saab ownership experience. Whether Saab continues or not, the true fans now deserve a better place to share their interest in the brand that they enjoy.

  • avatar
    jeff_vader

    Here would my reflections on what happened at SaabsUnited over the weekend.

    1.) Someone,somewhere leaked that document to SaabsUnited and therefore it came across the desk of TimR.
    2.) TimR, thinking that it will help the cause & having consulted his ‘legal team’, posts it up on the site as yet another excuse to bash Lofalk & praise Victor.
    3.) Someone at Youngman sees their private bank transfer document up on basically a Saab fanzine site and they are not best pleased. In fact I would imagine they are furious.
    4.) The people who are paying the bills at SaabsUnited get on the blower to TimR & suggest that although he might have been only trying to help, posting a confidential document on a public website which is actually made out to a company only part owned by Saab/SWAN might not be a good way to encourage Youngman that Saab/SWAN is a trustworthy company to do business with.
    5.) TimR panics and removes absolutely anything to do with the Re-Organisation and efforts to save the company probably on the advice of someones legal team who actually know what they are doing.

    I think that this morning Mr Tim better have his tin helmet on because I would have thought that Youngman will be very keen to have a chat with him about where he got that document from.
    With this and the constant Lofalk bashing on Friday, including accusations that he was a government stooge and was taking bribes, I suspect that The Church Of The One True Saab have done far more damage than good to the cause over the last 72 hours.

    • 0 avatar

      This scenario rings true with the caveat that a.) Leaks are usually intentional b.) SU prides itself of unfettered access to the unholy inner sanctum of Saab.

      I am sure that the leakees have received more than an earful, and what we have seen is hurried damage control on a listing ship.

      T/T confirms are usually sent accountant-to-accountant with the understanding that nobody else sees them. If, as alleged, the document was sent to Guy Lofalk, then matters change, as the document now goes into the court records anyway.

      I reiterate that the document in question is not a transfer confirm, it is a request for transfer. What you want to see is the confirm from the bank that the wire has actually been exercised. Even that does not always guarantee that the money arrives. It usually does, but the final confirm is a ledger entry at the receiving bank.

      Be it as it may, if the aforementioned scenario is true, then the sending party could be unhappy to hear that while the referencing article on SU has been wiped clean, the cover-up was clumsy. As noted above, the referenced document is still accessible on the Saabsunited.com server under http://www.saabsunited.com/wp-content/uploads/Payment-confirmation.jpg . Common amateurish mistake.

      A most egregious mistake is to publicly bash the court or the court-appointed persons who hold your destiny in their hands. It does not please the court when that happens.

  • avatar
    binkje

    Saab Automobile’s owner, the Dutch listed company Swedish Automobile NV, Swan, is expected, as reported to di.se this afternoon filing bankruptcy to Vänersborg.

    Several independent sources have confirmed to di.se that Swan will ask for Saab in bankruptcy. There is still no official confirmation from the company. A source at Saab comes with conflicting information to TT and believe that there has been no decision about bankruptcy on Monday. Neither the union has heard anything about a bankruptcy decision.
    The news that the company itself calls for bankruptcy is somewhat surprising because the Saab Automobile Chairman and CEO Victor Muller told the media that bankruptcy is not an option.

    A source with good insight into the drama that lasted a long time telling di.se:
    “That type of thinking found in the Saab trail. I would not be surprised if it receives on Monday that the company submits the application to the district court.”

    Saab’s business development manager Martin Larsson, who has previously been tipped to take over the CEO role in the automaker, neither confirms or denies.

    “I have no comment,” is his only comment when di.se reach him.

    If Saab chooses to file a bankruptcy petition and therefore calls itself bankrupt expected a swift bankruptcy decision. The district court will examine the application on the same day, according to past data to di.se from Vänersborg.

    Di.se has unsuccessfully sought to Saab CEO Victor Muller.

    http://di.se/Artiklar/2011/12/12/253430/Just-nu-Muller-ger-upp—begar-Saab-i-konkurs/?sr=23&tr=297228&rlt=0

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      Swan is the Dutch parent of Saab? If Swan declares bankruptcy in Nederland, claiming Saab as an asset, does the filing move the Saab saga to Dutch courts? Is this yet one more twist, featuring dueling bankruptcies in separate legal jurisdictions?

  • avatar
    binkje

    Poor TimR…

    Lets wait and see
    December 12, 2011 in Editorial

    Some reports are coming in that Victor might be forced to place Saab in bankruptcy in order to secure the employees wages in time for the o so important holiday for christmas.

    We still can NOT confirm any of this. But even if it were to be true, please keep in mind that it is in no way the end of Saab. Several companies have risen out of bankruptcy and are today very successful! Lets wait and see what happens!


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