New or Used: The Polish Connection?
Terrance writes:
I will be moving to Poland with my wife and baby son in July. We will need a car, and trying to calculate value is tough for me, knowing very little about the Polish market.
I don’t know how much we intend on driving, but probably the occasional couple hundred mile trip on the weekend. I would like to keep my purchase price below 5,000 dollars and have something that is easy to fix where I can maybe take it to the guy down the street who operates out of his house’s garage, and not be too afraid of the guy not being able to get parts, not having too many special tools, etc.
The other aspect of European cars is the use of natural gas. It looks like “lpg” is big in Poland as many of the cars I checked out on allegro.pl have the natural gas option. Does this add to the complexity of maintenance? Will this provide more value per mile than a diesel engine?
The car has to be relatively safe, and a wagon with the room would fit our style as a growing family. There seem to be a lot of 10+ year old German cars that can be had pretty cheaply ( allegro.pl). So far I like the Mercedes and BMW wagons from the early nineties. But something tells me that a 5 year old Honda Jazz would be a much smarter choice even if it might cost more upfront.
Sajeev Answers:
Unfortunately, aside from American land yacht fetishes of a few Polish citizens , my knowledge of that market is next to nothing. But that’s never stopped me before, so why start now?
As an expert in all things cars with a deep sense of cultural sensitivity to all automotive markets, I recommend you import some buy something similar to Panther Love. Need a wagon? Find the most common platform on the market and buy that wagon offshoot. If this was the late 1990s, I’d recommend a Ford Sierra wagon because of its historical success across most of Europe, its built-in mechanical simplicity/durability and its RWD design for some potential fun.
Obviously the Sierra is too old, so look at the Sierra’s modern counterparts: Ford, Opel, Renault, VW, Peugeot sedans that are also wagons. What’s the most common platform on the streets? What is the easiest to service if mechanical complications lead to communication failure between a Polish mechanic and a frustrated Ex-Pat.
Steve answers:
Poland for all intents and purposes should be like any other country in the EU. Though I understand that there is some rather fast driving of near new cars from Germany to Poland for some reason.
I would simply get the type of vehicle that would be the best match for your budget and needs.What do you like? Sajeev mentioned a Ford Sierra equivalent and Honda Jazz which have been well received for a long time now. Do you want something offbeat or unavailable in the US? If you ever wanted a Seat, Skoda, Peugeot, Fiat, Opel or Renault this will be your golden opportunity. The Germans also offer a long list of vehicles that are not available in the U.S. market and diesels are simply all over the place.I would rent a couple of vehicles and just get a feel for the traffic in the area. Then buy what is local. You want to deal with the customs and licensing folks as little as possible in any country. Unless you want to become a burgeoning exporter to the EU I would just buy a local ride and keep things simple.Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to sajeev@thetruthaboutcars.com , and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.
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Well, I'm from Czech Republic, which is a neighbor to Poland and our car markets are pretty similar, so I have quite an idea about what's available for this price. First, as many people here mentioned, $5k is really not a lot of money when buying a car. Count on getting roughly 10 year old vehicle, unless you go for something really small and/or crappy. Probably the best bet, if you plan to drive a lot, would be a first generation Skoda Octavia Combi 1,9 TDI 66kW or 81kW. These old diesel engines are much simpler and cheaper to maintain than the newer ones, and get great mileage - if you're careful, it's not that difficult to keep over 50mpg. On the other hand, they're not exactly the last word in refinement and have terrible turbo lag. If you were in Czech Republic, a major reason for NOT buying a Skoda would be it's popularity with thieves, but I think it won't be as bad in Poland - certainly the Octavia will get stolen less likely than a Golf or Passat. ¨ WARNING: DO NOT GET ANYTHING WITH COMMON-RAIL DIESEL! On your budget, never, ever touch modern diesels even with a ten-foot stick. Unless you plan to drive A LOT, and in that case, you'd better spend more than $5000k. Modern diesels (Ford's TDCI, Citroën and Peugeot HDI and so on) are fantastic machnines - powerful, quite refined and getting better mileage than a hybrid, but there are few bits that can, and - after 200.000+ kilometers, which any diesel at this price range will have - will fail. Namely, the turbocharger (although that's the least of your problems), the fuel injectors (expect paying $500 A PIECE. there are four of them...), the fuel pump (as much as $3000) and two-mass flywheel, which needs to be changed every time the clutch goes, and gets the price of changing the clutch up to $2000. On the other hand, if you're planning to drive a lot and can justify the potential costs (and bigger intial budget), something like 2003+ Mondeo TDCI Wagon will be a wonderful car. Big, comfortable, with the best suspension in this class. However, if you don't plan on driving at least 40 000km/year and don't want an old TDI, get a gasoline engine. In this case, don't buy anything VW - their gasoline engines suck, either by being underpowered, unrefined pieces of junk (the cheap ones) or by being crazy expensive to maintain (everything from 1.8T up). If you like driving, buy a Ford - a Focus with 1.6 or 1.8 is a great car, can be had as a wagon and it's pretty good to drive. If it's too small for you, get a Mondeo 2.0. Or 2.5 V6, which will probably be cheap (no one wants big gas engines over here) and loaded. Don't buy Renaults, unless you want to get a new car and can live with underpowered, underequipped Thalia, which is one of the cheapest cars on the market, while still being big enough for four people. But it will feel like going 20 years back (no power steering and so on). Well, while we're at it, don't buy anything french. Maybe an old Citroën XM, if you want to experience some Euro quirkiness - if you choose a right one, it won't be THAT hellish to maintain and it'll at least be cheap. Don't even think about anything Italian. Unless it's something little, like Fiat Panda or Punto, it'll be a nightmare. I've heard that some big Fiats (Marea) can be quite reliable, but I would't want to test it with my own money. On the other hand, Fiat has factories in Poland, so they'll be probably pretty popular there. Opel - if you want to go really big, get an Omega. Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, RWD and they also come with BMW 25tds engine, which is quite good. Also, an old Astra Classic - I think they're 1,7 diesels from Isuzu are quite good, too. VW - nope. You're on a budget, you don't need a fancy interior. Get a Skoda, which is 90% of VW quality. Japanese - something common, with gasoline engine, may make a sense. But if your priority is parts and service availability, stay away. Koreans - for your budget, not. The good ones are too new. Importing your own car - may be a good idea, depending on what you have. May even be sold at a profit later.
Good perspective ^^, I have always regarded VW as junk here in the states, gas powered especially. The common perception has been that Euro spec'd VW are better made. Is there any truth to that? I have an e30 in the states. Wife wants a couple airbags, so I may be leaning to an e36 wagon. I know that's easy enough to work on with parts galore. Lot of people have mentioned thievery... I live in St. Louis, and no time to run stats, but I'm pretty sure having your car stolen here is as likely. Certainly getting killed is much more likely. I've seen Poles install pretty nifty transmission locks that I might get for extra security.