DOE: The Cheap, Effective, Unsubdsidized Electric Car Is Coming

The Volt is designed to run primarily off battery 90+% of the time. And "Chevy Volt" = "Electric". The Prius, not so much, because "Prius" = gas-burning Hybrid.

@SVX pearlie, You apparently are unaware of the meaning of PHEV or what is meant by PHEV Prius. You also seem to be unaware that the Chevy Volt has a gas engine. According to the big W it's a "1.4-liter 4-cylinder internal combustion engine (Opel's Family 0)" PHEV version of the Prius can run in electric only mode for a significant distance. Saying that the PHEV version of the Prius isn't in the same class as the Volt because the Prius uses gas is implying that the Volt doesn't ever use gas (even though it does). If you think I'm talking about the regular run of the mill Prius that you see on the street in the US then you still don't understand what PHEV means or how few there are on the road and you should read more about the PHEV Prius instead of using the old tired comparisons to a car I'm not specifically referring to.

@SVX pearlie You asked an incredibly stupid question, why the well-known and earlier-launching Volt gets the press over the less-well-known red-headed stepchild of the hybrid Prius family. I answered it for you, in simple terms that the layman would understand, based on how laypeople currently understand the Volt and the Prius brands as they have been established in the public. The Prius is being marketed as a type of "hybrid", so it'll be marked as a gas-burner until they change the message. If you were half as intelligent as you think you are, then you wouldn't have asked the question in the first place. OTOH, if your real reason was simply to pump up the Prius, then that's unnecessary fail on your part.

@SVX pearlie "I answered it for you, in simple terms that the layman would understand, based on how laypeople currently understand the Volt and the Prius brands as they have been established in the public. The Prius is being marketed as a type of “hybrid”, so it’ll be marked as a gas-burner until they change the message." No, I'm not a shill. I don't have a vested interest in any car company nor am I paid by any obvious or hidden source of funds related to autos in any way. The study was mentioned in http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/02/doe-obama-ev-goal-is-possible-if-you-believe-the-hype/ which is linked in the article you and I are discussing. Following the link from there takes us to http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/02/1_Million_Electric_Vehicle_Report_Final.pdf which contains this text "Major auto manufacturers such as Chrysler, BYD, Coda, Honda, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Toyota, Volkswagen and Volvo are not included in this table, but have announced or are expected to introduce EVs in this time period. Because the U.S. is a major market for these automakers, it is likely that additional production capacity of several hundred thousand EVs is not accounted for in this table." So it wouldn't be that hard for a site called the TRUTH about cars to make sure people knew there are options coming especially when they are doing an article about the views from multiple sides of the argument. It's no joke there are bad numbers out there but it'd be nice to at least see a list of all the contenders in one article than to just ignore a major factor in a calculation that is under contention and getting lots of press. And if you think it's odd for me to point it out so be it. I think it's odd any time there isn't balance between the forces at bay. I think it's perfectly natural for a large percentage of TTAC regulars to use the term slushbox and I enjoy reading those sorts of articles/messages. So long as it's accurate/justified I want to hear the good and the bad about every car. I also want to hear from the TrueDelta/CR/pennypincher crowd with what may be opposing views on the very same vehicles and I don't want to have to see nonsensical inaccurate strawman responses anytime someone in that crowd makes a valid/justified comparison. If you had made the same first 3 paragraph's and left out the "half as intelligent" and "real reason" parts I would have considered your response informative enough. As is I think it gets more "inciteful" than insightful but I wouldn't ask someone to mod you down or delete your post. Oh, and In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics.

@SVX pearlie oh and on the message thing I find it odd that anyone would treat the Volt as anything other than a "hybrid" gas-burner no matter what the "message" is. The Volt is PHEV and sure the P and E are both eletric related but the H isn't any more or less hybrid in the general sense just because the marketing says it's different. You can argue about how many miles or km the Volt can go on a full charge vs how many any other PHEV can go but then you aren't talking about types of capabilities you are talking about extent. And that is the sort of logic that brings up the old joke: Man: Would you sleep with me for a million dollars Woman: uh, Yes Man: Ok, how about $5 Woman: what kind of woman do you think I am? Man: We've established that now we are negotiating price. Marketing can call the Volt an Electric Car with "range extension" and any other PHEV a Hybrid that burns gas but in reality that's just wordplay and I'd rather see Truth about cars. So if you know of upcoming PHEV's that will likely sell in quantity before 2014 made by Chrysler BYD Coda Honda Mitsubishi Hyundai Volkswagen Volvo I'd love to know about them as well. Toyota isn't the only company I'm willing to read about. But I would like to see some discussion around here about comparisons other than just Leaf vs Volt or Leaf vs Fit. There are more than two or three options in the market. Gas, Hybrid, EV it's a range/spectrum of possible options for the engineers to explore and customers to benefit from not a simple checkbox for marketing and political purposes (and the marketing is the part I'm least interested in).

@SVX pearlie IIRC Prius can't drive at highway speeds purely electric. It also has a battery size which equates to a maximum range of around 5 miles. Which for commuting is near why don't you just walk? ps. I think you can jerry rig any starter motor do drive the car 5 foot but i don't think you would call it an electric vehicle.

@ Charly "IIRC Prius can’t drive at highway speeds purely electric. It also has a battery size which equates to a maximum range of around 5 miles." As to highway speeds let me quote someone from another forum "Volt fans love to wave the 62 mph limit of the Prius PHV as if it was a big deal, but most Volt fans do not really understand the limit. > 62 mph does not mandate petrol consumption, it mandates ICE spin. Nothing prevents the ICE spin energy to be sourced from the traction battery if the demand is low enough and the battery SOC is high enough (how low and how high are software determined.) I travel in 'EV' mode at greater than 62 mph in my Prius routinely, although the window of SOC and power demand is narrow." We are discussing the PHEV which has a much longer range than just 5 miles. The existing Gen II or Gen III Prius can do electric only for that range. The PHEV is expected to get 3 times that range on battery alone. And it's still expected to be significantly cheaper than a Volt which gets greater range on EV. "The production version will let you choose to either: 1) Blend gas and battery above 60mph. Since it will use both, battery maybe drained off the highway. 2) Turn on HV mode to retain the charge for later EV local miles" "ps. I think you can jerry rig any starter motor do drive the car 5 foot but i don’t think you would call it an electric vehicle." Again we are discussing a PHEV which has additional batteries not found in the standard Prius. Please leave the strawman arguments out of this and read up on the conversions and/or the new factory option that is coming. If you are still confused by the term PHEV maybe the phrase "Plug in Hybrid" would make more sense? Maybe look at the ranges here http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Template:Prius_PHEV_Options or the article here http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1057287_2012-toyota-prius-plug-in-by-the-numbers-would-it-work-for-you All it takes is 150 pounds of batteries, a button on the dash, and a EVSE to turn a Prius into something more capable and efficient than a Volt. Why? Because the Prius has the EV button on the dash in Japan so the US version needs it added back. The computer already knows how to deal with the extra batteries and handle EV only operation. The only thing that kept them from selling a PHEV in the past was battery prices. It's not like we are talking about taking a Yugo and strapping a bunch of batteries in the back seat. A Prius PHEV is just as fully designed to run in EV mode as the VOLT they just choose to use less battery to keep weight down and MPG up so when you do use gas you'll use less of it. Now if you want to say it isn't your cup of tea or you don't think its worth the money just say so but don't go making beater vs hybrid comparisons or say that you think the Volt is in a different class just because the EV range is longer than the Prius PHEV's EV range. You'll easily get 2x the EV range with the Volt but that doesn't mean you aren't getting practical EV use out of other PHEVs. Try and do some real accurate comparisons please.

@SVX pearlie It's true -- I've driven my wife's 2nd-gen Prius at around 75mph on electric. Downhill with a tailwind. If you take green car blogs as gospel, you'd think that this car would have to turn on the engine to go that fast. But, in reality, it's not about the speed of the vehicle -- it's about the power the driver is asking for, and the amount of power in the battery. Ask for more power than the electric drive can deliver, and the gas engine fires up and goes. Ask for less power than the electric drive can deliver, and it'll do it without the engine until the battery depletes. In this particular case, the battery was full from running WOT up a mountain. The engine software seeks sweet spots in the power/efficiency curve and stores the excess energy in the battery -- so if you insist on driving fast through certain mountains on the Interstate (but not as fast as the car could possibly go), it'll charge the battery when going uphill and discharge when going down. It's a bit counterintuitive, but it really does achieve the goals of the HSD. As for differentiating between a Prius-like PHEV and a Volt-like PHEV, the question that matters to me is: can I use the car normally with the gas tank empty? My reading about the Prius PHEV suggests that the answer is a solid "no", since it sounds like the gasoline engine will start if you mash the accelerator, regardless of the battery's SOC. My reading about the Volt suggests that the answer is a qualified "no", since the computer expects to run the gasoline engine periodically in order to keep the cylinders from rusting, stir up the oil, and burn off stale gasoline. At the moment, I may only be able to achieve the kind of control I'm looking for by buying a BEV and keeping the Prius in the gas-guzzler slot.

@Luke42 How to they behave when out of gas? Leaf = Turtle mode 35mph governor when you get below a certain battery level. Just depends on battery temp and battery condition/aging how accurate the miles remaining are. You might make it to an electrical outlet or you might be calling for a tow truck. Prius - I'm not sure but I believe the effect is similar. You are on battery only and the Prius electric engine is slightly weaker than the Leaf so expect to be going slow unless it's all downhill. Should be able to limp a mile or two on the battery but you definately want to turn off the AC/heater/radio/headlights anything you can safely turn off and still drive without getting hit by another driver. Volt - I don't know but I'd have to assume it handles this as well as the others. Surely they programmed a 1 or 2 mile limp to the gas station mode?

@ dhanson865, Limp-home modes are great, but you missed the point I was trying to make. I probably wasn't explicit enough. The point that I was trying to make is that the dividing line for me is whether the car can really operate without gasoline. Since the LEAF does not have a gas tank or an internal combustion engine, I feel comfortable saying unequivocally that it *can* operate without gasoline. Yes, the LEAF requires energy (and lots of it), but that's not exactly the same thing as using gasoline, and the distinction matters to me. But, since the PHEV Prius and the Volt are likely to require, I don't think either can be called anything other than a hybrid. These are gasoline AND electric vehicle, rather than a gasoline OR electric vehicle. (I'm using AND and OR in the boolean sense.) To be fair, the amount of gasoline used by either a PHEV Prius or a Volt will be a small fraction of what a conventional vehicle would use, and I usually argue that incremental steps are worthwhile. I think those are legitimate arguments. But, I personally would like to have the option run a bi-fuel vehicle with no gasoline in the tank or no electric charging. The stock 2nd-gen Prius in my driveway gets all of its motive energy from gasoline (even during electric-limp mode), so it's a single-fuel vehicle. The easiest way to achieve the kind of choice I'm looking for may be just to own two cars -- one conventional vehicle with a gas tank, and a battery electric vehicle. That way, I can choose which fuel is appropriate for the day's task by choosing which car I get in to. Anyway, that's what I meant, even if the meaning was hidden inside a bulky paragraph that left some of what I was saying as an exercise for the reader...