By on April 20, 2011

The joint Subaru-Toyota “FT-86″ has been hyped for some time now as a modern-day AE86, a car with which Akio Toyoda hopes to recapture the “splendid flavor” of driving excitement that has been missing from Toyotas for some time. An affordable halo, in other words, which reconnects Toyota to the youthful enthusiasm of young men in search of rear-drive antics. And since it’s facing an aging demographic, that’s not a bad idea for the Toyota brand. Unfortunately, the latest look at the Toyobaru’s evolving styling is being shown in New York as a Scion, the brand that exists to prove that the Toyota brand can’t be youthful and exciting (and which just got a new sports coupe).

I’ve been on the record as a Scion-basher for some time, so I won’t beat a dead horse here… but if the FT-86 is supposed to be a halo for Toyota, it can’t just be shuffled off to the Scion ghetto. The car will probably sell regardless of the badge it ends up wearing, but the Toyota brand needs this enthusiasm investment, and Scion just needs to die.

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63 Comments on “What Was That About Boring Toyotas?...”


  • avatar
    mjz

    Die Scion, Die!

  • avatar
    HoldenSSVSE

    FT-86 in the pictures above – epic win.

    Selling it as a Scion – fail.

    Not calling it Celica to create a connection (ala Camaro, Challenger, Beetle) to the past, and enjoy the cost savings of reviving a storied brand, not creating a new one – epic fail

    Selling this side-by-side to the tC instead of killing the tC – incredible epic fail

    Keep the zombine brand Scion alive – waste of money, time and resources

    Will it sell.  Yes – great looking cars that elicit strong passionate responses with solid specs sell (hello Camaro) regardless of what badge is on them. Will it sell to its potential wearing a Scion badge???  Not even close.

    • 0 avatar
      carlisimo

      But it’s got nothing to do with the tC, which is a “nice” car for people who want to look cool and cruiser around in comfort.  The FR-S is a sporty coupe.  The only thing they have in common is being small two-door cars.

      Unfortunately, the sporty coupe audience disappeared 10 years ago (they’re still noisy, but they don’t actually buy new sporty coupes).  The comfy coupe crowd isn’t as healthy as the comfy sedan demographic, but at least it’s not dead.  I predict the tC will sell much better than this car.

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    The car will probably sell regardless of the badge it ends up wearing

    No, it won’t.  You’d think it would, but it really won’t.  It’s the answer to many enthusiasts’ desires in theory, but enthusiasts are fickle, and will come up with any reason to dismiss it (too small/tinny/cheap/expensive/big/small/soulless/etc/etc) and, for regular people, it has two doors two few, a rough ride and not enough em-pee-gees.

    Look at the Genesis coupe, which is a really good car.  It doesn’t sell.  The Camaro and Mustang only move because they tread on greybeard nostalgia, but the Genesis, and this, aren’t going to sell much at all.

    As a Scion it makes sense, even if it’s a cramped cousin to the tC; as a Toyota, in the showroom next to the Corolla or Sienna, it’s such an odd duck that it won’t really end up on the radar, even if you rebadged it as 2000GT, Celica or Supra.  At Scion, at least, it might get a second look from sporty-car intenders and impulse buyers who might be lured from the tC.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      I’m fine with it as a Scion.  Toyota’s branding means a safe, reliable choice.  I want this to be a little out there.  Make it weird.  Toyota isn’t required to make it “a Toyota” if they can badge it as a Scion.

      • 0 avatar
        SVX pearlie

        Or, as Mazda shows in their latest commercial:

        A toaster.

        I *love* that commercial. Every time the toaster appears my brain screams “TOYOTA!”

      • 0 avatar

        The problem is that Toyota dealership workers do everything they can to sabotage Scion. They know if they Scion is a success, everyone will be buying fixed price cars. When was the last time you haggled with a MacDonalds’ reject over a price of computer? Or a vacuum cleaner? Cars are the only products where this disgrace is still allowed.

    • 0 avatar
      Kevin Jaeger

      I think the Genesis coupe is close to being a success.  I hope they refine it and eventually make a success of it before they kill it off.

      I test drove one and wanted to like it, but I found it not quite sporty enough.   It was a little too heavy and the trunk was just a little too much of a compromise.  I ended up with a GTI instead, but I really would have preferred rear wheel drive.   

      If Toyota makes this car light, sporty, and rear wheel drive I think they could have a hit on their hands.

  • avatar
    mike978

    Q: What was that about boring Toyotas?
    A: One car does not make a change in reputation. Especially when considering the rest of the vehicle line up.
    Perception takes time to change as other companies are finding out with regards other issues (price, quality, reliability).

    • 0 avatar
      HoldenSSVSE

      Well put, just as the Cruze and CTS does not equal a brand new all new GM. Toyota has worked hard for at least a couple of decades on their boring imagine.

  • avatar
    Advance_92

    Maybe the NUMMI promise was that Toyota would take as long to get this car off the ground as GM took with the Camaro.  I keep seeing the Camaro mentioned in the same context as this car and all I can think of is that means we have three years to go before it’s on sale.

  • avatar
    Squares

    Well we don’t even know what all the spec are, you know?

    Subaru’s new 2.0 puts out 150hp.  And peak torque is is in the 4500 rpm range.

    That just sort of feels like a weak starting point.  But again, We don’t know that that’s what they’re doing (smart money, though).

    It will sell okay as a Scion.  It might could sell okay as a Celica.

    But you have to realize that this probably isn’t on the average enthusiast’s radar.  We’re still drolling over IS300s, SC400 and all manner of 3series’ in the sub 12k range…

    • 0 avatar
      Steve65

      Why is it that “enthusiasts” are always presumed to want ever more power? I don’t give a rat’s ass about horsepower. I want light weight, good brakes, supportive seats, and balanced neutral handling. Any numbnuts can mash a throttle pedal. It takes talent and practice to drive well.

  • avatar
    joeveto3

    The car looks good.  And I agree with what’s been said about Scion.  They had a shot at goodness, but lost their way with the redesigns.
    I think another Celica would be good.  But who am I to say?  I’m probably not in the target demographic (male, late 30′s, college grad), even though I can afford it.
    The points made about the Genesis are spot on and shows just how weird the market has gotten.  You’d think the Genesis would have sold a ton.  I can certainly think of a time when it would have.  But perhaps post 2008, vehicles such as the Genesis just don’t have much play here in the U.S. Overall, it’s sad.
    In some respects, I think we’ve gotten to be too fickle.  There was a time when 200hp was a ton, and made for a fun ride. Now, with minivans equipped with 270hp multicam v-6′s, base Mustangs with 300hp, and GT’s with once M5 territory 400+hp, I wonder what it takes to make the arm hair stand on end and get the buyers salivating.  Have we been ruined?
     

  • avatar
    bumpy ii

    So, how much does it weigh?

  • avatar

    Call it a Solara price from 30 to 40grand and put me down for one.

  • avatar
    Sinistermisterman

    I agree that it’s Toyota’s best looking car in quite some time, however I reckon it will only sell well if it is priced similar to the base Mustang V6 or the 4 pot turbo Genesis Coupe. I’ll put money on the base model costing closer to $30k which in my book will make it a non-starter.

  • avatar
    mtymsi

    Not knowing the performance capabilities or the price point it’s difficult to say what demographic group is the prime target but I can’t imagine a car that looks this good not selling well.
     
    I’m guessing if it’s being shown as a Scion the intention is modest performance and a lower price point. IMO looks alone should make this car a hit (that is of course if the actual production model looks anything close to this sketch.) When the Tc was first introduced I saw a fair amount of them on the streets but of course Toyota/Scion lost their way with that car.

  • avatar
    cackalacka

    Well, kudos for Toyota being the first Japanese maker to put aggressively-furious design cues on an appropriate car. Particularly now that Honda and Toyota have done their best to ‘aggro’ just about everything in sight.
     
    It is interesting, but like the Camaro, every angle/shot I see this thing makes me appreciate Mustangs that much more.
     
    As for Scion vs Toyota/Celica; I can see pros/cons to either, and think the consensus here is right; they should make it a Toyota.
     
    Although, if it was released as a Scion, this would be the first passing-lane-appropriate Scion in company history; a million gel-sculpted tC douchebags, notwithstanding.

  • avatar
    azmtbkr81

    I wonder if powerplant details are sparse because Toyota is cooking up a hybrid abomination ala CRZ…would make more sense selling it along side the TC.

  • avatar

    Can’t sell a car that isn’t for sale, and the way Toyota has been shuffling this concept around for the last few years, I wonder if it will ever actually be built.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      It was first shown in October 2009.  It hasn’t even been around in concept form for 2 years.

    • 0 avatar
      gslippy

      I agree.
       
      As an xB1 owner, I’ll say that Scion lost its way with the xB2 and xD designs, and the eternal tC.  This FT-86 is ugly, and it won’t do Scion or Toyota any favors.  Blending it with Subaru is a mistake.  I’d rather have a pure Toyota than this mule.

  • avatar
    Bridge2farr

    Wonder what kind of gas pedal/mat combination they plan to use on this half Dodge half Chrysler mutation? Lol

  • avatar
    zeus01

    Looks like an updated 240Z. But will it sell? Depends on how badly Toyota wants to sell it, meaning:

    Do they want to emulate the same tried-and-true formula that Datsun/Nissan (and later Mazda with the 1st gen RX7) employed, ie: introduce a very nice looking, good handling, reliable sportscar that even a construction laborer could afford the payments on?

    The Hyundai Genesis coupe and Nissan 370Z are not selling in huge numbers because the price point is too high for the masses. So if Toyota wants to sell a gob of these they have to introduce its base model for a considerably lower price say, $25K. They won’t make much per car sold, but all of those little bits add up. 

    Impossible? Hell no. Hey, it’s the same amount of steel, rubber, glass and plastic as in any other car of that size and weight, just designed differently.

    The 1970 240Z was introduced at a little over 3K in an era where a typical family car sold for more and a Corvette was around 6K. The 1979 RX7 came in at 7K at a time when a new Camaro Z28 was over 8K and a Toyota Corolla liftback was around 6K. A Corvette from the same model year? You could have bought two RX7s for the price of one Corvette but hey, that ‘Vette was amost a full second faster than the RX7 to 60 mph. And in the plastic date-bait even the most pathetic loser had a germ of hope that he might someday get laid…. 

  • avatar
    redliner

    How about the calling it “the new Toyota Celica, by Scion.” That way you remind people that Scion exists and you get some good Toyota PR too. I realize though that this is like calling it the “Toyota Celica, by Toyota.”

  • avatar
    JMII

    Like everyone else I’m waiting to hear the specs that matter: HP and LBS and $$$. Turbo 4 and light weight for me please. Figure 250HP and $22K if the weight is low enough. However I’m already getting sick of hearing about this car and how its coming “soon” – just build it already! Scion, Toyota, Subie… whoever, I don’t care.
     
    I’d buy a Genesis tomorrow if it came in a hatchback configuration. As is the trunk is a joke. Rear folding seats help some, but these coupes really work better in hatch form. I see a used 350Z in my near future since I can’t wait any longer – my current ride (VW Passat) is on its last legs, by years end it will be gone and miss my sports cars: previous Eclipse, Prelude and Mustang owner.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      The presentation of the car today claimed that the glass comes up as a hatch and the seats fold down with the intention of being able to fit 4 wheels and tires in the back for auto-x.  

      http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/scion-fr-s-concept-reveal-jack-hollis.htm

      It sounds like the weekend racer’s dream.

      You’re going to be disappointed with the power.  It is going to be a 2.0L naturally aspirated with Toyota’s direct injection.  Figure on it being around 180hp.  Weight should be very much around 2600~2700 lbs based on dimensions and the fact that the just released Impreza 2.0L (which is much larger) tips the scales at 2900lbs with AWD.  I expect pricing to be right around $20k because Toyota knows what $24k can buy you (V6 Mustang and Camaro, 2.0T Genesis, WRX).  That puts it about $2k more than a tC, which makes 179hp.  They seem to be targeting a cheap, fun, pure sports car… a Miata without a drop top.  I’m giddy with anticipation since I almost pulled the trigger on a Miata this summer but hated the noise of the soft top (and the retractable hardtop was too much).

  • avatar
    campocaceres

    The more I think about this, I agree, this should not be a Scion car. If customers want to move to the next level of rwd coupe within Toyota’s overall branding, they have to jump straight to the Lexus IS300. I guess the biggest question I see is.. will this sell xD’s and tC’s. Probably not. The xD is, let’s face it, mostly reasonable and practical, and the tC used to fill the niche (years ago) that this car, for all intents and purposes, is designated for.

  • avatar
    Rod Panhard

    Hi Kids! Do you remember 1989? Some company rolled out a two-seater convertible when the “experts” said, “The two-seater roadster market is dead! Long live British Leyland!”
    It sold. Dealers got paid way more than MSRP. That would be The Miata. Consider that in the late 80s/early 90s, the economy was in the toilet, just as it is today. Which means … a reasonably priced sporty car has a damn good chance of selling like, well, at $1800 over MSRP.
     

    • 0 avatar
      Strippo

      Not seeing that happen again. It’s like expecting there to be another Beatles. There was no internet when the Miata came out. Nothing mechanical can capture the imagination in the digital world. It’s just appliances and niche cars now. And most niche cars are shamelessly derivative of more appliance-like stable mates. I want a RWD Subie-powered runabout, but I’m not holding my breath that it’ll get built. I wouldn’t build it with my development dollars. This looks like the next Sky/Solstice to me. I do want one, but I suspect once everyone who wants one buys theirs (and not enough of us do), sales would virtually stop.

      • 0 avatar

        Strippo,
        There was no world wide web in 1989 but there definitely was an internet. There was email and usenet newsgroups. I ran a dialup bulletin board system (BBS) back then and I was echoing usenet newsgroups.

      • 0 avatar
        Felis Concolor

        I remember well my sense of urgency in borrowing a friend’s handheld scanner and carefully converting my disposa-cam photographs first into TIFF, then reconverting the massive greyscales into 8-bit GIF for a dialup friendly format. I was fortunate enough to still be living on O’ahu when Mazda was running around the island with their not-yet-announced Miatas – and of course they chose Sandy Beach for one of their photo shoot sites. Fortunately for me, the head of the physics department at the college was also an auto enthusiast and he cheerfully let me take advantage of his university connection to upload the small and large image files for the usenet denizens to enjoy – along with the admonishment “preorder yours now while it’s still hard to get.”

        Compu$erve’s automobile forum only got the GIFs; at $12/hr for 2400 baud I wasn’t about to burn money by uploading a TIFF.

      • 0 avatar
        Zackman

        1200 or 2400 baud rate?

      • 0 avatar
        Strippo

        I know the history of the internet. And rock and roll was around in the black community long before Elvis, too. It just took Elvis to make it a phenomenon. The same holds true for the internet before the world wide web. It wasn’t fundamentally changing the world.

      • 0 avatar
        Felis Concolor

        Aye, Zack: I remember well how some of the chatters on CI$ CB would log in at 300 baud just for the $6/hr rate to get their fix. And all the advice on the forums for those still running around at 1200: “at least get a 2400: you’ll save the purchase price in a month at the faster download rate.” Although in a few more years it would become moot: shortly after AOL consumed CI$, I shifted to an independent ISP and never looked back.

  • avatar
    zeus01

    “Hi Kids! Do you remember 1989? Some company rolled out a two-seater convertible when the “experts” said, “The two-seater roadster market is dead! Long live British Leyland!”
    It sold. Dealers got paid way more than MSRP. That would be The Miata. Consider that in the late 80s/early 90s, the economy was in the toilet, just as it is today. Which means … a reasonably priced sporty car has a damn good chance of selling like, well, at $1800 over MSRP.”

    EXACTLY!! And this car came along at a time when  sports cars in general were being passed over in favour of suddenly-popular SUVs. The price for the Miata was reasonable too, and it sold faster than Mazda could keep up with demand. Coincidence? Uh, no.

  • avatar
    Doc

    The car is beautiful. I would consider buying one. But…If it has a light 3rd brake light that spells out Scion, Toyota (or anything else) I’m out.
    It just does not get cheesier than that.

  • avatar
    Sanman111

    I still have a feeling that this thing will end up being more MKIV Supra than AE86. For me personally, I want lighter and under $20k. I’ve been waiting for a Miata coupe. Any more than that and I will be picking it up used. As I consider myself to be an average enthusiast, I think the issue becomes one of wanting with my heart and shopping with my sensible brain. As much as I like the car, over 20k leaves me no room for a cheap beater to drive through northeastern winters. Thus, this stays out of my garage for a few years and I go back to shopping for a clean fc rx7.

  • avatar
    James2

    Akio Toyoda can huff and puff all he wants to, but Toyotas sell precisely because they are the boring appliances of the automotive world. Boring cars sell well, as proven by the Camry and Corolla, what’s wrong with that? Toyota buyers don’t seem to be complaining. Why does Akio-san feel the need to make anti-Toyotas? Toyota didn’t suffer when it put the Celica, Supra and MR2 to sleep, did it?

    This overstyled concept (as well as the Lexus LF-A) has next to no relevance to the rest of ToMoCo’s product portfolio.

    I do hope that illuminated nameplate –shades of 80s/90s Pontiacs!– is just concept-grade eye candy. Leave the F1-style rear diffuser off, as well.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      Which is precisely why the Scion brand needs to stay around.  Don’t have Toyota, Lexus, and Scion overlap. Let them all do their thing and truly give an option to every buyer.  

      The illuminated name does need to go away, though.  The rest of the car is so nice that I can overlook it.

  • avatar
    ToyotaSlave

    Selling it as a Scion is a pure crime. Scion is only for FWD, period!
    Love the looks of it. Hope Toyota is smart enough to have either light weight with 1.8L or 2L with 6 speed manual or turbocharged 2L or (even crazier) turbocharged V6 for the fun-loving customers.
    Hell, want to be innovative? Twin turbo 4 cyl!!! Just make sure you have tons of cash to replace the blown gaskets frequently…
    If it’s going to be above 20K (which I’m sure in Ontario, CAN is a high possibility thanks to the dumb tax and higher price difference even though CAD > USD valuewise) – count me in for a slightly used version. Just hope my wife allows me for a “sensible” toy car at that time.

    LOL – that would be my……….7th Toyota…Muahahah!!

  • avatar
    meefer

    I just hope relegating it to the Scion brand doesn’t limit it to a 4-banger only. Even with a turbo you’re not getting enough power to really justify it as a “weekender” type vehicle which will be my next purchase.

  • avatar
    SomeDude

    Well, I will dissent from what seems to be the majority opinion. I don’t think this car looks good. It’s certainly not ugly, but I can see these three problems with its exterior design:
    (a) It is too convoluted. Most really elegant things are simple
    (b) It rips off a lot of existing cars including Toyota’s very own LF-A
    (c) However, when stripped of all the design ‘influences’ and allusions, the design is fairly pedestrian and has no personality of its own

  • avatar
    Scoutdude

    What an ugly car! At least making it a Scion means we won’t see many on the streets and it won’t last too long either since it won’t be able to keep Scion from dying. So it will end up being a huge waste of money.

  • avatar
    powerblue

    I’m so tired of the Scion bashing its almost without good justification. The brand has been a successful venture and I am sure Toyota would do it all over again if they went back in time. The brand has definitely lost some stamina in recent years mostly do to a lack of focus on the initial market strategy. Out of context design and lack of effective market penetration in the last 3 years have been upsetting to see as the brand’s cars have flawless track records with reliability and holding very high resale value. On our dealership we highly enjoy selling Scions because they pretty much sale themselves and always make us a solid profit. I don’t see total elimination of the Scion brand in the near future as forecasted by many on here but as all things do Scion will eventually come to an end if something isn’t done to re-excite the brand. Scion should not be compared to GMs Metro. Metros will always be remembered as a hopeless effort to be innovative while Scion will be remembered as a very effective focus on quality cheap cars geared towards a younger audience.

    • 0 avatar
      Scoutdude

      Fact is currently Scion is selling less vehicles than many recently deceased brands. While they may be profitable for the dealership they aren’t contributing to Toyota’s bottom line which is why the brand WILL soon be discontinued unless they get serious, take the brand back to it’s small fuel efficient roots and step up the marketing. There are some Xb in the fleet I service and they get miserable fuel mileage considering their size barely breaking into the 20′s in mixed driving.

  • avatar
    Quentin

    Scion clearly needs an Impala and Panther fighter.  I’m fairly certain that is the only way TTAC commentors would be interested in the brand. 

    While I’m no huge fan of Scion, this is the type of car that will bring me to the brand.  Simple, cheap, light, and fun.  I can’t believe the number of complaints about a small sport coupe (and it is Miata small) with a simple 2.0L engine (no hybrid, no turbo, no S/C), RWD, LSD, and 6MT.  Do we hate fun cars around here? 

  • avatar
    windswords

    Looks nice but with GM’s Toyota’s quality lately I would wait a couple years before buying one to make sure they got all the bugs out. Just sayin’.

  • avatar
    Zackman

    Is the subject above the final product? Or will this appear in in a slightly down-styled guise? If is meant to compete with the likes of Camaro and Mustang, it may fly. Why Scion? I’m sick and tired of all the name recognition being dumped across car lines – no sense of history? In my “perfect” world, here’s my vision: Toyota Celica. Done. It is written in stone, encased in steel-reinforced concrete, shielded from nuclear blast, protected from earthquake, tsunami, radiation and corporate stupidity (which is the deadliest threat).

    If Scion stands for anything, what is it? Everything they offer can just as easily be branded Toyota and be done with it. What they offer can all be in the Corolla family – everything. Sedan, coupe, wagon. Just like GM, Ford and Chrysler used to do.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      Expect smaller wheels, slightly narrower fenders, and more restrained front and rear bumpers.  The basic shape will remain as it has been pretty consistant with the FT-86 II concept.  I’m fine by this because I tend to prefer more restrained styling and wheel tire combos that aren’t $800 for a new set of tires.  225/45-17 sounds like enough room for good, large brakes, a good contact patch, and being visually appealing. 

  • avatar
    ponchoman49

    Ok so it’s not boring. But it sure ain’t pretty or speedy by the sound of the tiny engine.

    • 0 avatar
      zeus01

      “Ok so it’s not boring. But it sure ain’t pretty or speedy by the sound of the tiny engine.”

      Are you suggesting that smaller engines can’t make a car accelerate quickly? Better not let the F1 engineers hear that. The old cliche about there being “no replacement for displacement” is only eclipsed by that other one “The only replacement for displacement is technology.” You’re forgetting one important part of the equation: power-to-weight ratio. 

      All six of my 1st-gen RX7s made do with a measily 101 hp and an engine known for weak torque at low rpm. Yet in those 2500-lb cars it was good enough (at least with the manual transmission) for zero-to-sixty times of around 9 seconds, not bad for that era. My current driver (an ’09 Honda Fit) is also around 2500 lbs. With a tiny 1.5-liter engine producing a paltry 117 hp and its manual trans it can hit sixty in under 9 seconds. And this from an econobox.

      This new proposed Toyota/Scion sportscar is supposed to have on the order of 180 hp. With comparable gearing to my current ride it should easily come in at under 7 seconds. That’s only slow compared to cars doing it in under 6 seconds for example, a Porsche or a top-of-the-line Mustang— cars costing half again or double the 25K we expect this one to cost.

      As for looks, pretty may well be in the eyes of the beholder. But to call this car unattractive is to also say the same about the likes of the 240Z, the Ferrari Daytona, the Porsche Cayman, Jessica Alba….

  • avatar
    geozinger

    I would join those who say Scion should be cancelled, and this car placed in the Toyota lineup. Clearly this should be the new Celica and not Scion’s Sunfire. To my eye, there are (unfortunate) styling cue similarities to the Sunfire. There’s no mention of price or weight in the post, but considering recent trends, I can’t imagine this will be too far away from the 3000 lb. mark. Which would put it squarely in the old Supra’s target weight. Pity.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      Let’s use a little logic here.  New Impreza is 2900lbs with the FB20 engine.  Scion FR-S is much smaller than the Impreza.  Why, again, will the FR-S be around 3000lbs?  

      Here is an overlay of the Impreza and the original FT-86 concept.  Pretty substantial difference in size.  

      http://wiki.nasioc.com/w/images/0/03/CompareDriveFT86-08Impreza.jpg  

      Next, we’ll look at price.  This will have a direct injection version of the FB20.  Again, comparing to the Impreza, that would be a cost up.  It being a smaller car and making similar power as the Impreza and tC, there is no reason this should cost much more than either.  The Impreza and tC can be had for $18k.  I see no reason that the FR-S wouldn’t be between $20k and $22k.  That undercuts the Miata by about $3k.  BTW, the Miata is going to lose weight with the next generation, and I’m sure that Toyota is aware of this.  Toyota doesn’t price their cars by (cost to produce) + (margin) = MSRP.  They figure what the market will pay for the car and that determines the margin.  If the margin is too low, they don’t make the car.

  • avatar
    JMII

    Read the transcript and it sounds like they are going in the right direction, but think in the end its going to be under powered. Seems like every car comes in overweight and over budget, so balance and handling might be on the money but it can’t move then it will miss the mark. This is clearly a vehicle that should (like the Genesis, Mustang and Camaro) come with two different engines. One for people want a sporty daily driver and one for people who can afford to smoke the rear tires. Come on Toyota (Scion) don’t wimp out on us.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      It definitely should come with a 2.0L N/A and a 2.0T, IMO.  I’ll choose the cheaper option because this is going to be a weekend toy/daily driver.  I’m really hoping it is a free revving, N/A engine because that is what a proper sports car should be, IMO.  Those that want power should have the option.  I want handling and balance, though.


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