By on July 20, 2010

With President Obama set to sign a new financial oversight bill into law on Wednesday, the New York Times has dug into the bill looking for key oversights. Because auto dealers were exempted from the bill (thanks at least in part to their mobilization by the GM/Chrysler dealer cull), auto dealer finance tactics ended up square in the NYT’s crosshairs, and paper’s Your Money blog has a rundown of three of the most heinous of these tactics: the Yo-Yo, the Markup and the Add-On.

The Times describes the “Yo-Yo” as”rare, but truly insidious,” and explains it thusly:

Consumers sign contracts agreeing to an interest rate and price and drive away from a dealership thinking a deal is done. Not long after, they get a call asking them to come back to the dealership. Once dealers reel them back in (hence yo-yo), they say the financing has fallen through and try to get consumers to sign new contracts with higher interest rates…

Often, a dealer will quote an interest rate from a bank or finance company to a consumer, and the buyer signs a contract. Only then does the dealer get official approval from the lender who provided the rate quote. Every so often, lenders change their mind (or dealers do, lawyers say, because they may be able to make more money by arranging a higher-interest loan elsewhere and shoving it down the throat of a frightened buyer who needs the car to get to work).

The Times implies that such tactics should be subject to regulation by the new Consumer Protection Agency, but argues that in the absence of legal protections, consumers should seek independent financing from credit unions or banks. This is definitely not what the industry wants you to hear, as dealer and in-house finance is typically far more profitable (thanks in part to tricks like this) than the cars themselves. Still, arranging private financing is an excellent choice for any new car buyer looking for an honest deal without a lot of financing-related runaround.

The NYT describes the Markup problem thusly:

One thing consumers may not realize when applying for an auto loan through many dealers is that it’s often the dealers, not the company providing the loan, that ultimately decide how much you’ll pay. A bank quotes a wholesale rate to the dealer, and then the dealer is free to mark it up by as much as 3 percentage points. The dealer’s ultimate profit on any deal depends in part on how much it marks up this rate.

The problem, as the Times points out, is that these markups tend to be arbitrary and capricious.

That spread used to be higher, before a number of lawsuits using data from as recently as 2004 revealed that blacks and Hispanics were paying more for their loans, even when they had the same credit scores as whites. And in case you didn’t believe that everyone’s a little bit racist sometimes, lawyers in one lawsuit determined that minority-owned dealers had the biggest markups, according to Stuart Rossman of the National Consumer Law Center in Boston, who was co-counsel on the cases.

If that’s not a can of worms, what is? And once again, the solution is older than time: caveat emptor. OEMs and dealerships have every incentive to make financing part of your car-buying decision, and they have any number of attractive-looking incentives for you to buy a certain car. Ultimately, though, arranging financing before you even begin hitting the lots is the best way to make sure that your lender keeps your best interests (rather than, say, their dealership’s profitability) at heart. Borrowing from small institutions like credit unions might not seem like the best way to get a screaming deal, but since they’re member-owned, they tend to have a much better record when it comes to fair lending practices.

Finally, the last major scheme not covered by the Financial Reform Bill is an old dealer favorite: the Add-On. And if you’ve ever bought a car from even the most up-and-up dealership, you’ve had a sales manager try to add undercoating, window etching, service contracts or some other worthless tacked-on fee after you’ve essentially come up with a deal. This, according to the NYT, is a popular scheme because it works even when a shopper has been smart and arranged their financing ahead of time. After all, if a dealer can’t squeeze you on APR or a financing Yo-Yo scheme, they’ve got to make some real profit somewhere… and add-ons have always been the last resort for a car-dealing scoundrel. The only protection a consumer enjoys from such schemes: The Nancy Reagan. Just say no.

We weren’t thrilled to see the Financial Reform Bill pass without coverage of dealer financing for the simple reason that the industry has a bad enough reputation as it is. Everyone knows the archetypal buy-here-pay-here sleazeball dealer, and carving these fine businessmen out of a lending reform bill is the best way to perpetuate the stereotype… at a time when consumers have few feelings of sympathy for the plight of the car business. But here’s the silver lining: at least car buyers won’t be burdened by the expectation of a government-guaranteed hassle-free buying experience. The old “buyer beware” maxim has been all a car buyer could rely on since the dawn of the industry, and at least this bill doesn’t give anyone the excuse to pretend like that’s changed.

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38 Comments on “Auto Dealer Tricks That The Financial Reform Bill Didn’t Fix...”

  • avatar

    Thank god for my Credit Union. I’m leery-est of the dealer in town who does financing and insurance in-house and consistently has the highest advertised prices on his used cars.

    • 0 avatar

      You’re shady dealer isn’t a CarHop affiliate is it? I’ve known many people who have been burned to the ground by CarHop. Essentially they take a crappy car charge twice what it’s worth ask for 27% interest and call it a day. I knew somebody who bought an 11 year old Oldsmobile that had been severely neglected and paid $7500 for it at the above interest rate. Their reason for the high price was the 16 month warranty that doesn’t cover anything.

    • 0 avatar

      Sadly it’s a Ford dealer (I like their products) the dealer with next shadiest rep in town was a Chrysler dealer that was minority owned and (shocker) seemed to treat minorities worse!

    • 0 avatar

      I guess that proves that the corporate leadership has little to nothing to do with dealership experience. Our local Ford dealer has a fairly good reputation and their used cars are generally 2k (at least) less than blue book. My family has always had luck at this Ford dealer and we’ve been what one would call credit-challenged.

  • avatar

    I would have to agree that more than a fair share of dealerships could give a rip what car or truck the customer bought as long as it is financed through them. Moving the iron is just the sideline to selling the more profitable loan.

  • avatar

    I have found in over 20 years of new car buying… The thing that works the best… Is you save up for a new car and then (sit down for this) you pay cash.

    This radical technique bypasses all of the F&I insanity… Ya you still have to say no to the undercoating, scotch guard and oil changes for life… but really who falls for that undercoating malarkey any more anyway?

    • 0 avatar

      Or save up enough to buy a used, err, pre-owned car with that extended warranty and low interest rate for a shorter period of time. BMW is offering 0.9% financing for 24 months on their CPO cars. Shopping rates and timing your purchase when a mfg needs to move the iron is the best (only?) way to buy from a dealer.

    • 0 avatar

      I agree.
      It’s also worth pointing out that if you finance outside of the dealer (CU or community bank, for example), then effectively you ARE paying cash too…and a cash transaction between you and the dealer is ideal.

    • 0 avatar

      @drivebywire, true, people often forget that when you finance through a bank or credit union of some sort they pay the dealer and then you pay them. For the dealer it’s essentially a cash transaction, their bank account swells by the amount of the purchase price.

  • avatar

    Heh. When I was hunting for my Saab I had a fun experience at a used dealership in Jersey (Yeah, I know).

    The car, as oft happens, looked nice in the pictures, but was a wreck in person. Tons of niggling little things wrong with it, accident damage not mentioned, etc. I’d driven about four hours to see it, so I wasn’t terribly pleased.

    Anyway, I told the salesguido… salesman my position, and he said, “You drove all the way and you’re not going to buy the car?”

    “Why should I compound a long trip by buying the wrong car?”

    “What price would make you change your mind?”

    “Something you won’t accept.”

    …and then came the really fun part. I have a policy of not buying anything over a hundred bucks or so on sight; I always think about it. I tell the guy this, and it completely breaks his whole sales strategy. It was like declawing a grizzly bear and tying its mouth shut; it just kinda lumbers around not knowing what to do.

    “I don’t make a decision same-day.”

    “But you drove a long way… and you’d have to dri-”

    “Doesn’t matter. I don’t make a decision same-day.”

    “What number would make you drive this car out of here?”

    “A hundred dollars. If it’s any more than that, I sleep on it.”

    “Ha ha! Let me talk to my manager. I’ll see what I can do.”

    [yelling after him, amused] “I don’t make a decision same day!”

    *comes back*

    “OK, I can get you $500 off and we’d fix the problems.”

    “You mean you’d do me a favor by actually selling a car that lives up to its advertising, after trying to raise the price the moment I walked in? Plus, I don’t make a decision same day.”

    “I, uh.. er… what would… you drove a long dist… I’ll man my percentager… manage percentage distcoating under warranty?”

    Then I left. It was worth the trip just to see the guy flail around after being deprived of his flow chart.

    Interestingly, I did almost exactly the same thing to a mattress salesman a few weeks ago. My wife and I went solely to compare to online stuff, and I told him just that. He huffed something about it “Not being good for retailers”, as if it was unfair that people were selling mattresses online without 500% markups.

    That guy totally couldn’t handle the not-same-day thing. He completely ruined his credibility by first saying they had no room to maneuver on price, absolutely not, that they were taking a bath as it was – and then miraculously finding another five hundred bucks “from his manager” when we started to walk out. He nearly followed us all the way to the car.

    • 0 avatar

      good one, I’ll have to use that. That’s a good policy to have

    • 0 avatar

      I had a similar experience at a Ford Dealer about 150 miles south of where me and my wife live. We were in teh area, so my wife and I decided to look at some cars. Hers is getting quite old and we are interested in a new or slightly used car for her. She first test drove a 2011 V6 then the salesman talked us into driving the 2011 V8 with all the extras. It was a blast, especially after I got behind the wheel, but they would not take no for an answer. I told him the exact same thing, I don’t buy a car the same day as the test drive. Eventually, I got the “What price would make you buy this car today” line, and I said, one you wouldn’t offer. I sware, there must be a car salesman’s play book. When we were driving off, one of the sales people who had been working on us came running out with a further reduced price. It was almost laughable, it was so stereotypical.

  • avatar

    Calling these heinous or insidious is resorting more than a little bit to hyperbole.

    1. Re-signs: Yes, sometimes this happens, and if the dealer really is calling you back I just to jack up the rate or the price, then I agree that there is no excuse for that, it’s shady behavior. More often than not though when this happens it’s because there was something on the buyer’s credit that made the original lender decide to either not take the loan, or to take it at a higher rate. If the customer likes the car and they want to stay in it we will of course do everything we can to keep the deal afloat, but if the terms change, they change. Now, on the flip side, if your original contract terms chane, that contract is now invalid, and you have every right to opt out of the renegotiated figures, give the car back, take your trade back, and wash your hands of the situation. The dealer can not force you to buy something for terms you do not agree to, and reputable ones won’t try to.

    As far as why this is necessary, it’s simple, most credit challenged people think they are entitled to far better loan terms than they actually are. If they say another dealer has offered X, then we need to see if we can do it to. Asking them to wait a day or two to get the loan and terms approved first doesn’t work because they will just go to the next guy down the street and he will take the chance he can get it done and roll them out in a car. With credit challenged customers you usually get one chance, so you give it your best shot, hope you can get the terms they want, and if you can’t you hope they like the car enough that they accept reality and the loan they actually qualify for.

    Mark-ups: Dealers offer financing as a convenience and to draw business. For doing this there is no reason tha a dealer shouldn’t be able to make a profit on that financing. Macy’s makes a profit when you finance your purchase on your Macy’s card, this is no different and no less ethical. Anyone is free to do the financing legwork themselves and come in with their own loan, dealers do not force their own financing, though they may recommend it, especially if they can match or beat outside rates. If the local credit union offers you a 5% rate, and the dealer marks up a 3% wholesale to 5% to match, is that any less of a deal? What about if the dealer only knocks it up to 4%, beating the credit union, but still making a profit. For some reason car dealers, more than any other business, are villified for wanting to earn a profit on their business. Profit isn’t a dirty word, and just because a dealer makes money on a transaction with you doesn’t mean you have been screwed.

    Add-ons: Would you like fries with that? Do you have the cables to hook up your new printer or do you need one? Would you like to subscribe to an extra year of Car&Driver for only $5.99? Upsells are everywhere, in every business. Cat dealers selling additional things with the car is no different. If you don’t want it, decline, simple as that.

    • 0 avatar

      I was just about to say all that!

    • 0 avatar

      “Profit isn’t a dirty word, and just because a dealer makes money on a transaction with you doesn’t mean you have been screwed.”

      Right, and the consumer is equally justified to counter with the same level of tactics, role playing, and NLP games in order to pay as little as possible. Money saved is the ‘profit’ to the car buyer.

    • 0 avatar

      I agree…up to a point. When I bought my last used car (haven’t and won’t buy a new car ever again), dealer had a $200 or so “add-on” for window etching. I, naturally, declined. When I brought the car home, as I was cleaning off the dealer decal on the back hatch, I noticed…yep, window etching! So, this wonderfully honest dealer was willing to allow me the privilege of spending $200 for something that they never had to even do (was already on the car). Nice…very nice. If hadn’t noticed the line item on the write-up, they would have cleared $200 for 0 work done. And yeah, they tried hard to push their own financing, but I wasn’t biting (I came with a large percentage down and financed for a very short period of time).

    • 0 avatar

      @ Fleet: NLP = Neuro-Linguistic Programming – very slick. Reading people’s body language and word choices and countering with the most effectic pitch. It’s amazing how phrasing a sentence a certain way can make all the difference. As to the customers using tricks/lies to get the lowest price, it happens on both sides, so what’s the problem??

      As much as people say they hate to negotiate, everyone loves a bargain, and everyone wants to think they “stole” it.

      Why do salesmen do the hard sell? Because they know that if you leave, there is only maybe a 10% chance of ever seeing you again. Better to get the deal the first time than chase the customer for a return visit. That’s why salesmen try so hard when presented with the BS stories – need the wife, want to shop around, it’s our first stop, blah, blah blah.

      Rule of thumb: if the dealer lets you leave, you got their best price.

    • 0 avatar

      threer, the dealership probably etches all their inventory the difference is if you don’t buy it they don’t register it. It’s not worth the money, mostly pure profit to the dealer which is why many insurance companies do it for free.

    • 0 avatar

      Add-ons: Would you like fries with that?

      No problem if they ask up front, like Micky D’s does it. At my local Honda dealer the salesman put the window etching right on the old 4-square form before asking if I wanted it. It would have been easy enough to decline, but the point is Micky D’s doesn’t add fries to my order then wait for me to decline them.

      I used to sell cars, and the sad truth is that dealers are scum and so are most of the sales people. That’s why customers don’t like the experience.

    • 0 avatar

      Add-ons: Would you like fries with that? Do you have the cables to hook up your new printer or do you need one? Would you like to subscribe to an extra year of Car&Driver for only $5.99? Upsells are everywhere, in every business. Cat dealers selling additional things with the car is no different. If you don’t want it, decline, simple as that.

      Exactly. This is not a financing issue, unless they’re specifically talking about financial add-ons like life insurance to make the payments if the breadwinner dies. Maybe that’s what they mean, and NYT got their analysis wrong.

      If it’s missing from dealer financing regulation, that implies it is not missing from (i.e., is a part of) the bigger, overall financial regulations that have just passed.*** Does this mean that Best Buy can no longer try to push an extended warranty on me for everything I buy, because they offer a house brand credit card?

      As much as I hate most add-ons, sometimes I do want fries with that. If I’m buying a DVD player that needs an HDMI cable, for example, I would never fault the salesdrone from asking me if I needed one before I left.

      The more I think about it, the more I think they mean financial add-ons like insurance.

      *** Surprisingly, this is the true meaning of the phrase “exception proves the rule”, or so I have read. Explicitly saying it was missing for auto financing (the exception) ‘proves’ it’s presence in the larger bill. I never figured I’d run across that in real life.

    • 0 avatar

      The problemn with the “Yo-yo” scenario is when a trade-in was involved. I’ve read about cases where the dealer called the buyer back because the original financing fell through, buut they “found” other financing. The buyer could then cancel the deal, the only problem is the car they traded in is already gone and they are only entitiled to the money that the dealer paid them for the car (the trade-in allowance), which is typically much less than what it would cost to buy the same car even at wholesale. So, now they can eat the extra cost of the alternative financing or essentially sell their car for much less than they could have on the open market and go without a car on top of it.

  • avatar

    Most dealers are on the Credit Union Direct Lending (CUDL) programs now and can finance you through you’re credit union. Also with dealer arranged financing they are able to match or beat most credit unions we do it all the time, as far as mark up if we get money at say 2.99 and sell it for 3.99 and thats lower than you can get on you’re own whats the problem with that?

    • 0 avatar

      My credit union nearly went under because it was financing sub-prime borrowers with dealer cooperation arrangements. Ive found that big credit unions behave more like for-profit retail banks these days than the truly member-owned institutions they supposedly are. Its kind of like mutual insurance companies.

  • avatar

    Re-signs happen when a loan is approved with certain stipulations (proof of income, proof of residence, etc) that customers are asked to provide but sometimes forget to bring on delivery, As a courtesy, the dealer will deliver the car, with the financing pending the receipt of the needed paperwork. Then the paystubs come and the dealer finds that the customer overstated their income, and now the loan approval is no good.

    Whata wrong with the dealer marking up an autoloan, especially if the rate is still competitive with the customer’s bank/credit union? It makes me laugh when people use HELOC money to buy a car. Great, so when you need a new roof, are you going to come back to the car dealer to take out a loan since you used your home equity on a car? We don’t finance that.

    As for the add ons, yes we offer them, but you aren’t under any obligation to buy. Just say no.

    It always amazes me though, how customers still believe the car dealer lies (we approve everyone, no money down, $99 per month, etc..), but I when I actually speak the truth, they get mad (feeling dumb for believing the lies?)!!

    It’s all a game on both sides, play with knowledge on your side or get burned. Simple.

  • avatar

    First of all, any dealer who pulls the “yo-yo” routine on purpose should be shut down. That’s just plain sleazy. No excuses.

    The other schemes are probably typical of other purchases, as the sales reps above have noted. But what consumers resent is the relentless nature of a lot of hard sales pitches. For consumers who don’t stick to their guns, the only way out is to run far, far away.

    When I bought my Honda 7 years ago, I negotiated a decent price — about halfway between invoice and invoice minus holdbacks. But then we had to go through the F&I routine because Honda was offering 0.9% financing, which I wasn’t about to pass up, even though we had cash.

    The F&I guy on three separate occasions “accidentally” put in the wrong number — for interest rate, loan tenor and amount financed, each time resulting in a $3-4K markup that I caught. Now I spent the better part of a decade on Wall Street as a trader, and I can do math on my feet VERY quickly. But I suspect that 90%+ of consumers get taken during these meetings.

    Sad that so many car dealers believe the only way to make a living is to prey on their customers.

  • avatar

    I had a situation when purchasing a new car in 2009. The salesman was great, got a good price on my trade in, and the price of the vehicle was really good. This was on a Sunday when the Finance dept wasn’t there. So Monday I go back to sign the paperwork and immediately get the service contract add on pitch and the guy shows me the price of the car with the different service options. I declined and asked to see the paperwork without the service contract added. Immediately I notice the price was higher than what I negotiated the day before. At this point I’m about to walk out but I asked why it was higher. He gave me some BS about the credit union lending not going through when by the way I have really good credit. So I pull out my credit union financing offer and he had to beat it. So I am glad I didn’t walk out because I got a better deal then what I had when I walked in.

  • avatar
    C. Alan

    I seem to be getting better at buying cars as I get older. My last experience was pretty good. I don’t keep cars very long (two years at the most), and I always feel like I am getting screwed when I trade them in. So when I decided to trade in my Corolla at the height of the last Toyota scare, I went to Carmax first. I got an offer from them that was about what I expected. I did test drive a BMW at Carmax, but I just couldn’t make myself buy a black car.

    So I drove down the road about 15 miles to check out a Toyota Avalon I was interested in. It was priced about $4k below everyone else on the web, and it had some paint chips, and was an ex-rental. It still had 15k miles left on the power train warrenty. The interior was very nice, and when you sit in it 80 miles a day, that is important.

    It was a saturday, and there were only two sales men and the manager in the office. The only hold up was my trade in. The sales manager took a look at my offer from Carmax, and agreed to match it, thus saving me a trip across town.

    I made the deal in 15 minutes, and didn’t feel like I was getting screwed. I ended up waiting nearly 2 more hours for the finance person to get the contract typed up. I had a bank draft in hand, and my CU gave me 3% financing. I was out the door in under 3 hours, and the entire time, I felt like I was the one in control of the deal. Now, if I can just make myself drive this car til the wheels fall off…

    So in summary, get your own financing, and if trading it in, get a Carmax offer first.

    • 0 avatar

      Given that you flip cars about every two years, does this mean that you expect the wheels to fall off this Toyota in a bit more than 2 years? (or ca. 30k miles). ;O)

  • avatar

    The yo-yo sale, also called the “puppy dog” sale or, the dealers’ favorite term, “spot delivery”, isn’t uncommon at all. In fact, the National Association of Dealer Counsel (the association for attorneys who represent auto dealers) named their newsletter “Spot Delivery”. Many dealers have something called a “spot delivery rider” that they have you sign when you buy the car, but they rarely give you a copy. This form is totally self-serving BS. I agree that yo-yo sales are inherently deceptive and should be illegal. In many cases the dealer screws up and violates the Odometer Act and the Truth-in-lending Act when they do a yo-yo sale. If you run into one of these problems, find a consumer lawyer in your area by going to the National Association of Consumer Advocates webpage at

  • avatar

    Any given car model has far less feature combinations and less technical than a desk top computer.

    Millions of people are able to easily go through the on-screen wizard to build and buy their PC.

    No reason this can’t be done with cars except that state franchise laws prevent direct to consumer selling.

    Test drives would be done for moderate fee at a manufacturer demonstration center/rental outfit.

    Service could be done at any garage just like today.

    Very few people need a live car dealer to guide them and those that do will likely become a “lay down” for the salesman.

    Isn’t time for the car salesman to join the carnival barker and vegetable peeler huckster in the annals of outdated professions?

    • 0 avatar

      No reason this can’t be done with cars except that state franchise laws prevent direct to consumer selling…
      Isn’t time for the car salesman to join the carnival barker and vegetable peeler huckster in the annals of outdated professions?

      I sympathize. I know a number of coders who had a hand in gutting the Travel Agent industry.

      But I’m not certain Car Salesman would disappear if they lost their State Law Security Blanket. For consumers, the car is a significant purchase – and a human interface is necessary for many.

      Don’t get me wrong – OEM direct sales would be great for the informed car buyer. Many of the worst dealers would disappear. But a good human interface – and good Car Salesmen would be around for many.

  • avatar

    I find the crimes to be committed from the consumer side, as mentioned partially above. Lies stem from trade-in condition, income, credit worthiness, other dealers cheaper deals, and on and on.

  • avatar

    I am ever wonder why buying goats, horses or cars is so damn complex. I suspect the herder instinct kicks in. For whatever reason it’s stupid. There’s no reason for the souk to be the model of a car lot.

    Meh. Screw it. I walk or bike. I’ve had enough with camel rollers.

  • avatar

    I bet car companies with not only good cars but fair dealers are seeing better years.

  • avatar

    The dealership finance guy was the only irritation when I bought my Saab last year. I had already gotten the loan from my Credit Union (4.5%). I’ve found the car, am on the phone with my sales guy, price is all set (~$13K off MRSP), but I have to talk to the finance dude to get the final number to take to the CU. Mind you, I’m buying the car in MA, I’m 120 miles away in ME. First, he asks me if he can try to beat my CU on the financing – sure, go ahead, but I want the car for a business trip on Friday, which means I want to come down and get it tonight. This is at 11am. 4hrs go by, still no call back. I call them and tell them I need a copy of the sales contract so the CU can cut them a check, and they close at 4pm. He starts going on about how if I don’t finance through them I will have to make two trips. Uh, why, my CU just wants a faxed copy of the contract with the total price on it – they don’t even need it signed. On and on and on this dude tries to get me to go with his financing, even though he can’t even MEET my CU, never mind beat them. Finally I told him I was about to hang up, and he really should go apologize to the salesman, because he was about to cost him a commission. I had my number 3 minutes later in my fax machine. Otherwise, I could not be more pleased by my car buying experience – Herb Chambers Saab in Boston. NO BS other than 10 mins with this @sshole. Off to the Saab Owner’s Convention tomorrow!

  • avatar

    Having bought and sold a fair number of cars in my life, I have kind of become the dealership nightmare. When I walk into a stealership, oops, a dealership, I tell the salesman this:

    1. If you do what I want, you will sell a car today.

    2. Do not try to upsell me, pack me or add anything.

    3. Do not attempt to show me anything I do not want to buy.

    4. I will give you one chance to give me EXACTLY what I want or I will walk out the door.

    5. Tell this to the business office before I go in their door because any contract I ink with a salesman is legally worth about as much as the pooper paper in the can and I know it.

    You know what, it works. There are tons of dealerships and they all have cars. If the car you want is not there, another dealer will have it. You will not die if you do not get a new car today. A week, a month, you will still get what you want want.

    And if any dealer wants to rip off some other poor sap with some absurd pack, I say have at ‘er.

  • avatar


    -driving 4 hours to see a used car
    -use of the term “salesguido”
    -“sleep on” purchases over $100
    -glib response to salesmans attempt at negotiation

    My utmost respect to people in retail sales.

  • avatar

    Yo-Yo sale? The last time that happened to me was when I bought my first new car in 1986. I left the dealership at closing time on a Friday night. Drove the car all weekend. On Monday they called me in to say I needed to pay more per month. I pushed the keys at them and said “not interested, and oh, by the way, I put over 200 miles on it this weekend so I guess you’ll have to sell it as a used car”. They changed their mind. I knew my old car was gone but that was ok because it was a piece of junk anyway and I could get another one for not too much money.

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