By on February 18, 2010

When the Toyota recall debacle kicked off, there were two types of reactions from their competitors. There were the ones who went after Toyota customers like a Catholic priest after a choir boy. And then, there was the “we are taking the high road” brood. Franco-Japanese Nissan were a part of the “we are way above this” bunch. They confirmed that they wouldn’t be introducing programs to woo Toyota customers. Who would want a Nipponese cannibalisation in the far abroad?

Somebody must have missed the memo.

Down in the Carolinas, the Post and Courier reports that Nissan offers an allegedly “nationwide” bounty of $1000. Payable to any Toyota driver who buys a new Nissan. However, the twist is, the Nissan dealer doesn’t want the Toyota in question on his lot. Oh, no, they would have to sell the toxic trade-in. You just show proof of registration of a ToMoCo-mobile, one G will drop on the hood, and you are good to go. You could buy thousands of Nissans and become a millionaire!

Of course, it’s all in the name of a good cause. “Nissan is not trying to destroy Toyota’s name,” Carl Hall of Morris Nissan in West Ashley said with a straight face and a sugar blossom drawl. “We are just trying to assist people who have any doubts with their product right now.”

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Mr Hall. Naturally, the Toyota dealership in the same town has a different take. “It’s an opportunist taking advantage of a situation,” protests Paul Whatley, general manager of Gene Reed Toyota in North Charleston. “That’s probably not a good thing to do. I think it’s a very dangerous thing for them to do. All car manufacturers have recalls.”

Do they really? Try before you buy.

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38 Comments on “Nissan And Toyota: Mutiny About The Bounty...”


  • avatar
    MasterOfTheJawan

    Nissan quality took a major nosedive starting with the 2002 altima. Those cars became notorious for fried cats, warped brake rotors, bad 02 sensors, bad ignition coils, excessive oil consumption, and cold-start problems. When they put the maxima on the Altima’s paltform in 04 all those problems spread to the maxima. Now you’re hearing people complain about issues with the CVT that started with the 07 Altima and Nissan extended the CVTs warranty to keep them quiet. You don’t hear anything about this in consumer reports though but on http://www.carsurvey.org it’s a clear rampant problem.

    So yea, if I was a Toyota driver I’d stick with Toyota before switching to Nissan.

    • 0 avatar
      drifter

      if I was a Toyota driver I’d stick with Toyota before switching to Nissan.
      If your Toyota has a CTS pedal, it going to stick anyway.

      Never heard of engine sludge in Nissan unlike Camrys and ES300s

    • 0 avatar
      psarhjinian

      Nissan’s QR25 didn’t sludge, it leaked. Badly.

      There was no recall. There wasn’t a recall for Toyota’s sludging issue, either, but at least they did offer a secret warranty.

      Most of Nissan’s problems stemmed from (fanfare, please) cost-cutting. Ghosn is, before all else, a cost-cutter and Nissan was getting killed by Toyota and Honda on cost at the time. Toyota and Honda made it through the cost-cutting exercises several years earlier and without quite so much pain; Nissan didn’t fare as well.

      Much of this was related to teething problems at Smyrna and they have, by all rights, gotten the worst of it under control. Models engineered during Le Cost Cutter’s initial reign, though, continue to suffer (Titan, Quest).

    • 0 avatar
      Steven02

      How is a secret warranty any good? So, Toyota was less slimy? Not exactly a ringing endorsement. The defense of we are really bad, but they did this one thing this one time that was worse is a ridiculous argument.

  • avatar
    drifter

    Both Honda and Toyota has enjoyed undeserved quality reputation for decades while Nissan considered as second tier for no reason. Nissan power-trains has been bullet proof while Toyotas/Lexii suffered engine sludge and Hondas/Acura at turn of the century had widespread transmission problems on everything from Accords, TLs and Odysseys. That is Japanese perception gap for you.

    • 0 avatar
      MasterOfTheJawan

      Nissan wasn’t considered a 2nd rate product but more like a good product that was kinda afraid to compete directly with Toyota in the midsize sedan battlefied. Throughout the 90s Nissan never competed directly with the camry/accord intently choosing to make their altima smaller than those cars, while marketing their larger sedan the Maxima (which became the poor man’s 3 series in 95) as an upscale sedan a notch above camry/accord. When they finally went head-to-head with camry with the 02 altima they cut corners, using cheap plastics all over the interior like a GM bean counter. As time went on we saw that cost cutting extended under the hood,,, as you can seen from altima reviews on carsurvey.org. This made it an inferior car compared to the camry/accord of the time.

      And as for Infiniti,,,, until they G35 came out they were nothing but rebadged maximas so don’t get me started. Until the G35 Infiniti was a joke.

    • 0 avatar
      psarhjinian

      Honda, Toyota and Nissan were more or less on par with each other for most of their history. Toyota’s big reliability gaffe was the 97-01 2.2L four and 3.0L V6; Honda’s was 5ATs paired to automatic transmissions from 01-04. Other than that, they’ve been very solid and the statistics bear this out

      Nissan’s was several models (Quest, Titan/Armada, Pathfinder/XTerra) and the aforementioned QR25.

      I like Nissan (specifically the Altima, Versa and Cube, all of which are excellent cars) but I think you’re being a bit disingenuous saying a) Honda and Toyota’s reputation was undeserved and b) Nissan never did.

    • 0 avatar
      AccAzda

      The issues with the Accords were always the 6cycls..

      4s were always fine.

  • avatar
    crash sled

    Sometimes you’re the dog, and sometimes you’re the biodegradable vegan environmentalist-approved chew toy. Right now, Toyota is the chew toy. Much of this stuff is pure hysteria, but like many of us, I do secretly enjoy watching them get their comeuppance, and appreciate the important messages it sends in the process, for everybody.

    So, let Nissan have a little fun, and let Toyota make the relevant responses to their challenges, funlessly. It’s like LBJ once said: “Sometimes you gotta just stand out there and take it… like a jackass in the rain.”

    • 0 avatar
      Dr. Nguyen Van Falk

      I too secretly enjoy watching Toyota flail and squirm. It’s silly that so many people thing that toyota’s quality was so far above any other manufacturer’s and it’s enjoyable to watch the leveling of the playing field. Toyota’s not that great, GM is better than before, Chrysler is still up the creek without a paddle or a clue, Mazda, Hyundai, Kia and Ford should come out of this laughing all the way to the bank.

      Toyota’s sentimental seppuku fest that they play on the radio and tv are hysterical.

    • 0 avatar
      crash sled

      No, it’s not “silly” to note that Toyota’s historical quality has been beyond that of other manufacturers’, certainly beyond the Detroit 3′s. That’s where the “hysteria” kicks in here… when we forget that history, which is backed up by our old friend.. Mr. Data, who is accompanied by our other old friend… Mr. FiveYearCostOfOwnership.

  • avatar
    montyz81

    Give me a break. I have a 2009 Murano, 2006 G35 and a 1981 280zx (which btw was started after sitting for 4 months. Started on the 2nd crank and ran smooth). The G35 has 70k miles on it. I have only changed the tires and I just did that. Nothing else has been done to the car. The Murano has 40k miles on it. I haven’t done anything but change the oil on it. The CVT although it saps power from the engine has performed flawlessly and I tow a utility trailer with it. The interior of the Murano is on par with the best of the Infinitis. Yes, I get that I am a fanboy, but at the end of the day, all of the above are facts. It’s not me just saying it to say it.

  • avatar
    Steven Lang

    They’re doing it in Georgia as well. In fact they’re targeting billboards that are right in front of the Toyota dealerships. I passed by one right next to a T-ship on my way to my sale this Tuesday. It was well done.

    I’m about as un-PC as they get. But lay off the Catholic priest metaphors unless you want my New Jersey upbringing to come back in a ‘Falling Down’ chain of events.

    To be blunt about it, don’t fluck with my wife’s fluckin’ religion. Her church was the only place I could get drunk for free on any given Sunday and I value that access more than you realize.

    • 0 avatar
      YZS

      Nothing says smart AND classy like a good old threat to punch someone’s teeth in, over the internet, to a woman. Good job.

  • avatar
    Contrarian

    It’s competition. Get over it.

  • avatar
    bmoredlj

    Toyota dug its own grave perpetuating a myth about superior quality and safety – nearly two decades after it ceased to be true. That bitter competitors are now perpetuating a new myth – that all Toyotas are death traps and must be separated from their owners immediately – comes as no surprise, and is just dessert for Toyota. They’ve lost control of their sham message, and they’ll have to fight to restore that control, because the competition is under no more obligation to not be merciless jackasses than Toyota was when their message was firmly in hand.

    • 0 avatar
      psarhjinian

      Toyota dug its own grave perpetuating a myth about superior quality and safety – nearly two decades after it ceased to be true.

      Except that, on every objective survey, they still actually do lead the pack in reliability and TCO, especially among mass-market makes. Consumer Reports, JDP, Consumer Guide, etc: they’re at or near the top of all of them. Oh, and they’ve been getting better every year, if you PPM and TCO as a metric

      I don’t know where this “Toyota has been off it’s game for 10/20/30 years” comes from. It’s the same wishful, reality-divorced thinking from which “GM has been making cars just as reliable as Toyota/Honda since 1980/90/2000″ springs from. It’s a nice thought, but the data just isn’t there.

  • avatar

    Cammy,

    I second Steven Lang’s reaction to the remarks that paint all Catholic clergy with a very nasty brush. I’m not defending priests because I’m Catholic, I happen to be Jewish. The fact is that all people sin. The orthodox Jewish community is dealing with its own sexual scandals involving rabbis, including cases of child molestation and abuse of authority. You’ll find, unfortunately, sexual misconduct in any community, religious or not. If I’m not mistaken, famed athiest Madelain Murray O’hare was involved in some kind of scandal.

    It was a cheap shot and very close to a bigoted remark. Cammy may have thought it was just a joke but I can understand how it can be seen as anti-Catholic.

    BTW, how do you separate a Taliban leader from one of his mujahadin?

    With a crowbar.

    [rim shot]

    Try the veal. It’s Halal. I’m here for all of Ramadan.

    NOTE: “Boy love” is said by anthropologists to be pretty much institutionalized among Pashtun men.

    • 0 avatar
      Truckducken

      Great – then let’s agree to pick on all religions (and the non-religious too) with equal abandon. Beats political correctness any day; we’ve got the mainstream media for that.

    • 0 avatar
      Cammy Corrigan

      This is all I’m going to say on that comment I made.

      1. It was a comment against the priests, not the religion. I’m an atheist, but I do not recall anywhere in the Bible the advocation of sex with children. That’s purely a human failing, not a religious one.

      2. I did a quick search on Madalyn Murray O’Hair and couldn’t find any report of a sex scandal with her. Let alone it concerning underage children.

      3. You cannot call yourself “Un-PC”, but then get huffy when it’s YOUR sensibilities which are tested. I have to endure tons of “the UK doesn’t have a car industry” and “The UK is a second rate country” jibes, but I know I’ve made my fair quips about cther countries, so I’d be a hypocrite if I got on my high horse about comments about my country.

      All comments have been taken on board. Back to topic, please. :O)
      4

    • 0 avatar
      Robert Schwartz

      I second Ronnie. It made me cringe too.

    • 0 avatar

      As a baptized Catholic, I’m going to invoke my identity-politics-granted right to laugh this one off… and for a small donation (or five minutes in the confessional) I’ll grant personal dispensation to laugh along, guilt-free.

    • 0 avatar
      Ernie

      This is up there with: “when it comes to Toyota and Honda, always stick with what they recommend. If the car came with Goodyear tyres from the factory, stick with them.”

    • 0 avatar
      Cammy Corrigan

      Ernie, If you’re going to quote someone, do it properly.

      I never, actually, said that did I? What was the full quote?

    • 0 avatar
      Ernie

      As you wish:
      [full quote]I own a Toyota Yaris and I spoke to my mechanic who services my cars. I asked him whether, when it comes time to change my tyres, could I use Pirellis instead of the Goodyear’s which the car came with from the factory and he summed it up beautifully:

      “I can’t speak for manufacturers like Ford, GM and Volkswagen, but when it comes to Toyota and Honda, always stick with what they recommend. If the car came with Goodyear tyres from the factory, stick with them. When Toyota or Honda pick a supplier, they’ve tested them rigourously to make sure they’re the part for the car. They don’t just pick the cheapest supplier. Likewise, when it comes to fluids, for the car, pick the car maker’s approved make, not one which ‘meets the standards’. That way you solve 2 problems: 1. you won’t invalidate your warranty and 2. the car will run the way it’s supposed to”.

      So far, he’s never been proved wrong when it comes to automotive mechanics.[/full quote]

      Tone doesn’t change much.

    • 0 avatar
      crash sled

      Ok, that’s enough. I’m putting all you kids down for a nap right now!

    • 0 avatar
      Cammy Corrigan

      Well, actually, it does. You tried to attribute something someone else said, to me.

    • 0 avatar

      I’m with Ed. I’m Bavarian. I was raised by Catholic nuns. I laughed my head off.

      And I want to know the Jersey church where you can get drunk for free. All we got was a tasteless piece of wafer, and we had to go to confession on Saturday for it, and had to abstain from partying on Saturday night to avoid any unchaste thoughts …

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    Secret warranties are better than, say, a sharp stick in the eye, but you’re right that they’re not a solution. They are, though, how these kinds of problems have been handled in the past.

    One of the likely outcomes from PedalGate will be that consumers will no longer accept “secret warranties” (customer satisfaction programs, etc, whatever euphemism companies want to use) as they will not make the distinction between why a safety-related recall is free, but you have to fight (and pay) for a non-safety-related known defect. Blood is in the water now, and the co-inflating of a design defect with overall quality is going to prove a double-edged sword.

    Companies like Nissan or General Motors who are endeavouring to make hay from PedalGate have to be very careful: customers will be very, very unforgiving if they trade in their otherwise-reliable Camry for an Altima that costs them money after the warranty period expires.

  • avatar
    ronin

    Cool, didn’t know we had opened the gates to religious slurs- are other ethic or racial insults open game as well?

    To a Catholic saying that one is insulting their priests but not their religion is insensitive at best, probably disingenuous, but certainly bad manners at any time.

    TTAC really should be above this.

    • 0 avatar
      Ernie

      +1 on “totally inappropriate” An edit is in order . . .

    • 0 avatar
      criminalenterprise

      From a writing standpoint, it’s a terrible simile. How could clergy sex scandals with perverts and innocent children remotely provide a solid platform to build a corollary with the competition in the automobile industry?

      Or was it just meant as a bigoted one-liner? In which case I look forward to the hilarity of such similes as “like a black man wants his welfare check” and “like a Jew chasing a nickel”.

      Hmm, I wonder if those examples offended anyone. Maybe I should apologize.

    • 0 avatar
      YYYYguy

      +1

      I doubt the other similes would be funny either. The Catholic joke was just poor and TTAC should be above that kind of swill.

      Suggested edit:
      “There were the ones who went after Toyota customers like Good Natured TTAC readers after a TTAC writer with poor form. And then, there was the “we are taking the high road” brood.”

      ;)

    • 0 avatar
      greenb1ood

      +1.

      I must have missed all the other numerous religious slurs throughout the years of TTAC readership. Either that, or insulting race and religion is a new policy, in which case I’d like to bring back Farago’s anti-govt rants as they at least might have led to some substantive debate. All Ms. Corrigan’s comment can lead to is divisiveness.

  • avatar
    also Tom

    “It’s an opportunist taking advantage of a situation.” When was it ever different?

  • avatar
    cRacK hEaD aLLeY

    Toyota is doing it against Toyota here in Vancouver BC.

    If I show-up at a dealer’s lot with a registration of a previously owned Toyota (needs to be registered to myself or to an immediate relative), they will drop 1K on the hood of any new Toyota. That’s on top of their other rebates and incentives.

    On top of that there’s now Complementary Maintenance for 2 years with free oil/filter every 6 months.

  • avatar
    Mervich

    montyz81:
    The best built, best designed and most reliable/trouble free car I have ever owned was a (purchased new) metallic red 1979 Datsun 280ZX. Members of the fairer sex were quite enamoured with it as well! For all the mentioned reasons, it was always loads of fun to drive!

    I sold it for a 1982 BMW 5 series money hole.

    Mervich

  • avatar

    This discussion is closed. Move on.


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