By on January 4, 2010

Pride comes before the... um, something.

When CEO Chung Mong-Koo told his employees to make Hyundai’s quality world class, their competitors all had a collective laugh. Well, we all know how that ended, so when Chung told his employee to increase sales, the competition should probably heed his words as a warning. The Korea Times reports that Chung Mong-Koo wants the Hyundai-Kia group to increase sales by 17% in 2010, from 4.63 million (2009) to 5.4 million. “Our teamwork helped turn a crisis into an opportunity when the global auto industry was at its darkest,” said Chung Mong-Koo.  “Based on our achievements last year, let’s work together to make 2010 a year of writing a new history.” Analysts like Sohn Myung-woo of Woori Investment & Securities sees the goal as achievable, saying “Hyundai will continue its sales momentum in the U.S. and emerging markets such as China and India.” But besides expanding volume, Hyundai wants to use its momentum to continually improve its brand image in mature markets like the US. To that end, it’s paying more attention to how it markets its Genesis luxury semi-sub-brand.

USA Today reports that Dave Zuchowski, Hyundai’s U.S national sales chief, has sent a memo to Hyundai dealers across the United States stating that they need to do more in order to separate between regular Hyundai cars and the Genesis. And when they say “separate,” they mean “separate”: the ultimate goal is to create a “showroom within a showroom.” However, on Hyundai’s website, the Hyundais and Genesises (Geneses?) are side by side with each other. Hyundai are trying to avoid separate dealerships for the luxury brand, like Lexus, Acura and Infiniti did. While this “showroom within a showroom” technique will be cost efficient, it may not work in the long run. What partly helped Lexus, Acura and Infiniti get sales was the fact that they stayed separate from their mass volume marques (Toyota, Honda and Nissan, respectively), thus giving the impression that a new boy had come to the market. For better or worse, the “showroom within a showroom” idea will always keep the Genesis linked to Hyundai. Is the US market ready for a brand that spans from a $10k Accent to a $60k Equus, or will a velvet rope be enough to differentiate them? Only one way to find out.

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50 Comments on “More Volume Or Head Upmarket? Hyundai Chooses Both....”


  • avatar
    Ernie

    Article correction:
    “When CEO Chung Mong-Koo told his employees to make Hyundai’s quality world class, their competitors and current owners all had a collective laugh.”
     
    I’m still not drinkin’ the Korean Kool Aid yet.
     
    What’s Karesh got to say on this?  Was there an actual or just perceived change in quality?

    • 0 avatar
      rockit

      I agree,  I am not anti Hyundai – I have not simply seen examples in real life that make that statement true…..but I have seen plenty of Hyundai vehicles with poor to lackluster quality made in the last few years.

    • 0 avatar

      My wife’s Sonata just rolled over 50,000 miles with zero issues.  Can’t say that for any GM, Ford, or Chrysler product I ever owned.

      John

    • 0 avatar
      Ernie

      Had 3 saturns do that.

    • 0 avatar
      Truckducken

      Ernie, you lucky dog. My first Saturn blew its MT at 30K. Second one ate its rocker arms at 30K. That was that.

    • 0 avatar
      PennSt8

      I believe our Fusion rolled 55K the other day. No issues there, other than a frayed headliner (which was replaced under warrant).
      I’m more concerned with how well cars hold up after 75K+

    • 0 avatar
      TrailerTrash

      I agree…

      BEFORE I start really believing Hyundai has become a real auto manufacturer, they need to show me they can stop stealing.

      How can you be considered anything but just another in a Eastern copy of a legitimate product if its all copied? Its like all those watches and Gucci bags I see on the street stands in China.  All the major brands are there , all fakes.
      I am not that much of an engine specialist, so I can’t speak to their engines.
      But Jesus H Christ, the Equus is yet another stolen design.
      Is that or is it not the Lincoln MKS front grill?

      Doesn’t Lincoln have trade protection from design copies?  I remember Jeep had a few lawsuits along this line a few years back.

      The Genesis is the Mercedes.

      The former copies are of Honda’s.

      But I guess that is what the Japanese did originally as well.   Why spend money on design when you can copy and spend it elsewhere?

    • 0 avatar
      Ernie

      That stinks.  Probably my “smartest” car purchase was my old 2002 SL1 . . . the ONLY feature on it was A/C.  (multiple ties for dumbest)
       
      There wasn’t really anything on the car that could break (like my grandma’s old sunbird) but I wanted something nicer and traded it in later on :o
       
      I basically went from car repair + payment to just car payment (good move).

  • avatar
    rockit

    “When CEO Chung Mong-Koo told his employees to make Hyundai’s quality world class, their competitors all had a collective laugh. Well, we all know how that ended..”
     
    Hyundai’s quality is not world class, it is baised on media gushing, not real world examples like Toyota and Honda.

  • avatar

    If Hyundai wants to really go upmarket, they need to change the name. “Hyundai” has always been a name to gag on. In fact, it sounds kind of like a gag reflex

    • 0 avatar
      bill h.

      Supposedly the name equates with “modern” in English.  So it’s hardly something to gag on at least if you’re Korean.
      Now a Korean may gag on trying to pronounce “Chevrolet”, but it may be for reasons not necessarily having to do with the name itself…….
       

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    I’m still not drinkin’ the Korean Kool Aid yet.
     
    You might want to.  Per Consumer Reports it’s above average or good, more or less on par with Ford, better than Nissan, VW or Mazda and well above GM, Chrysler, Mercedes or BMW.
     
    This is including the Genesis and Azera, by the way, which are not simple cars.  About the only problematic model is the no-longer-for-sale Entourage.
     
    A second, and ringing, endorsement would be from the author of Lemon-Aid, Phil Edmonston, who is far harder on cars’ reliability than CR, JDP or whomever you choose.

    Reliability is a funny thing. You’ve heard of this mysterious fall in reliability of Toyota and Honda (which, in any given reasonably objective survey, isn’t happening), or how GM is making reliable cars (they aren’t, only a few cars like the W-Bodies and GMT900s have been consistently solid), or that Mercedes is reliable, but VW/Audi isn’t (the latter is actually awful, the former is about average these days).

    Enthusiasts have their own bias: they’re very conservative, and slow to change their minds even when presented with empirical evidence to the contrary. Hyundai has been “not bad” since ~2000 and “quite good” since 2005, especially as their older models are replaced.

    • 0 avatar
      rockit

      The Hyundai models that I can recall from 1999-2006  from friends and acquaintances all have major mechanical problems at average  or below average kms.  Honda and Toyota have earned a quality reputation through decades of reliable products.

    • 0 avatar
      ponchoman49

      Actually Toyota HAS had a fall in reliability for the past 5 years and it’s well documented everywhere you look. Not sure which rock you have been hiding under so let me refresh your memory a little- record number of recalls in the past 5 years of all manufacturers, oodles of transmission problems with newer designed 2007 on up Camrys, Tundra tailgate collapsing issues, poor interior dash layout and interior materials and numerous driveline issues revolving around the axle, tailgate shudder over railroad tracks, Tundra and Tacoma frame rot recall from NHTSA, accelerator sticking causing unintended acceleration which Toyota blamed on the floormats, hybrids like the Prius for fires and stalling on the freeway on the second generation models from 05 on up and the list goes on. Don’t believe me. Just go to any Tundra forum or Toyota forum or check out any 05-09 forums or car ratings on Toyotas and see just how there quality has slide drastically. Hell even there former CEO admitted to quality issues due to growth far outpacing quality standards or quantity before quality. I have numerous friends with 07-08  Camrys, Tundras, Yaris’s etc that have had numerous transmission problems, quality defects, buckled tailgate after transporting a ATV 4 wheeler, paint coming of the back lower quarter panals after only 5K miles and many other issues. Hardly what I would call steller reliability.

    • 0 avatar
      Ernie

      http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2010/01/hyundai-azera-recalled-for-faulty-seat-belt.html

      Not a fan of Toyota, but I’ll take a floormat issue over a seatbelt issue.

      Subarus, these are not.

    • 0 avatar
      psarhjinian

      Hardly what I would call steller reliability.
       
      Yet, when organizations do actual surveys those problems don’t seem to be statistically significant, and most of their customers are very happy.  Either several  agencies are grossly wrong in their statistics or methods, or perhaps you are.
       
      You’re making a common error: the assumption that the silent majority (everyone else) agrees with the vocal minority (eg, you).  Humans have a hard time with objectivity; we’re not set up to live outside our own heads, but we have an easy time assuming that the world within our heads is the truth.
       
      Relying on forums, colleagues and the blogosphere for objective truth is insane.  The bulk of people who post on forums either have a problem/gripe, or want to discuss problems/gripes.  You’ll find this across professions: doctors despair people’s health, cops their moral fibre, help-desk staff their technical competence, etc.  I worry about what therapists or divorce lawyers must think of western civilization.

    • 0 avatar

      The previous-generation Elantra may not have had bad reliability, but it was still quite a dismal vehicle in many respects. I had a 2005 as a rental for a week or so while my car was in the body shop for a parking-lot mishap, and it was a thoroughly mediocre vehicle. I took it back and borrowed my friends’ ’93 Civic hatchback, which was much more pleasant in almost every way except spec level.

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    If Hyundai wants to really go upmarket, they need to change the name. “Hyundai” has always been a name to gag on. In fact, it sounds kind of like a gag reflex
     
    I’m not so sure about this, either.  Upmarket names are tarnishing fairly rapidly, and the public’s attention to brand equity is much more plastic and short-term than it used to be.   Add to this that anti-branding and self-effacing or modest brands are gaining and there’s a window, here.
     
    Hyundai may have trouble in North America (which is more “old-school” in this respect) but I don’t think they’ll have issues in Europe, the Middle East or Asia.
     
    Personally, I really like the “No Logo” approach of the Genesis sedan.

  • avatar
    ponchoman49

    The Equus, which looks like a bloated up Genesis, is going to be 60K! Holy smokes batman. Good luck with that.

  • avatar
    IGB

    Hyundai may ultimately do just fine in the carmegeddon brand reshuffling that has taken and is taking place.
    Soon Genesis will be competing with Chinese Volvos, Indian Jaguars, Mexican Lincolns and perhaps even Malaysian Saabs. Owning a Korean Genesis may be driving a car with a bonafide pedigree in this day and age.
     

  • avatar
    Steve Biro

    “rockit
    January 4th, 2010 at 2:38 pm  

    The Hyundai models that I can recall from 1999-2006  from friends and acquaintances all have major mechanical problems at average  or below average kms.  Honda and Toyota have earned a quality reputation through decades of reliable products.”

    This is interesting because my wife has owned her Santa Fe since Dec. 26, 2001.  That’s 8-plus years and 70K-plus miles. The only problem she’s had is the signal amplifier for the in-window radio antenna had to be replaced after about three years.  No trouble with the replacement part.  Now, you can make an argument that Hondas and Toyotas were slicker than Hyundais at the time my wife bought her Santa Fe.  But I’m not sure if that’s the case – at least in a general sense – any longer.

    People also talk about Hyundai styling being derivative. Maybe so, but ALL auto styling is derivative these days. No sooner does an exterior or interior style point get introduced by one brand when it is promptly copied all many others.

    As far and Toyotas and Hondas are concerned, I haven’t done much research into their reliability these days.  But it is clear that assembly quality and materials have dropped a notch or two lately as evidence of cost-cutting rears its ugly head.  And two of my friends with mid-2000’s Hondas needed their automatic transmissions replaced.

    We can all point to anecdotal problems with all brands.  But it’s pretty apparent that no one has had to fear purchasing a Hyundai in the past four or five years.  Nonetheless, old perceptions die hard – particularly among sports fans and auto enthusiasts.

    • 0 avatar
      rockit

      Its good your wife’s vehicle had that one problem (if you can call it that even), but the cars that I have come across have much more serious problems, problems you wouldn’t find in Toyota, Honda, and some domestic cars from the same age and mileage.

  • avatar
    PennSt8

    I have no issue at all with a badge. If the vehicle is worth the sticker price then sign me up. I like the Genesis sedan, and IMHO it works @ its current sticker price. The Equus on the other hand…….well it doesn’t strike me as anything special.

  • avatar
    Disaster

    According to Consumer Reports, Hyundai has moved into 8th place in reliability amongst the 34 brands that are sold in the U.S.  That puts it below Toyota (4) and Suburu (7) but above Mazda (12) and Suzuki (21) and every “American” brand.
    A good friend of mine is on his 3rd Hyundai and totally sold on the brand.
    I do agree that Hyundai needs to better differentiate their luxury cars from their lower models and needs to provide a more upscale dealer experience for those customers.
    By the way, we just picked up a 2009 Hyundai Genesis sedan after cross shopping several other vehicles in the same price range, Volvo S80, Ford Taurus, and Buick Lacrosse.  The Hyundai was by far the best value of luxury, features and price.

    • 0 avatar
      PennSt8

      Hyundai is not a full line manufacturer stateside. Until they start making full size pickup trucks those results don’t paint an entirely clear picture. Especially considering that reliability/durability/quality throughout an automakers lineup may or may not be consistent.
       

    • 0 avatar
      Disaster

      I don’t know that I’d give Honda credit for their “Ridgeline” trucks.  Toyota and Nissan, sure, but Nissan’s trucks have had a abysmal quality history…which might partly account for it’s overall 14th rating.  The others…Volkswagon, Mitsubishi…etc…they don’t even make trucks.  Meanwhile, Hyundai makes models all the way from the pint sized Accent to the Avalon sized Azera, and now rear wheel drive luxury models as well.   They have a wider lineup than 80% of the other makers in the U.S.

    • 0 avatar
      PennSt8

      I believe you missed my point. It had more to do with assuming a specific nameplates reliability based on the badge it wears and less to do with which brands were full line automakers.
      Essentially what I was getting at is the fact that one ought to place a considerable amount of weight on the specific vehicle that they are looking at vs. looking at a brand as a whole and assuming that it is tops in its respective class/category.

  • avatar

    Psarhjinian,
    If Hyundai’s leaving the logo off the Genesis, it’s obvious they’re taking my advice!
    I’m in accord with you about reliability issues. I no longer tell people to avoid Hyundais, although I myself live in fear that some day it will be the logical car for me to buy.
    Additionally, I think over the last ten years Hyundai has done better with styling than its major competitors. Taht’s not to say the cars are great, or that anyone will ever consider showing them in MoMA, but the bell curve of responses to Hyundai styling is less towards “ugh” than the competition.

  • avatar
    IGB

    With regards to the above reliability stuff, Hyundai is unequivocally not “there” yet.
    Lets look at data. From TrueDelta (I hope Michael won’t mind me quoting his data.) Using the bread and butter sedan and giving it enough time to break. We’ll take 2006 by which time we all agree Hyundai was on it’s game:
    2006 Sonata 69 problems/100vehicles
    2006 Accord 19 problems/100 vehicles
    2006 Fusion 45 problems/ 100 vehicles
    2005 Camry  22 problems/100 vehicles
    2006 Altima 16 problems/100 vehicles
    2006 Mazda6 28 problems/100 vehicles

    If we look at 2008, Hyundai had 67 problems per 100 Sonatas. Not much better and very ho hum. Dare I say Chryslerish, in fact.
     

    • 0 avatar
      Disaster

      That is a fair comparison…using an older Hyundai model.  Hyundai has an all new Sonata in 2011.  Now lets compare the Accent which was new in 2007.
      2007  Accent  23/100
      2007  Civc  44/100
      2007  Focus  68/100
      2007  Corolla  12/100
      2007  Versa  58/100
      2007  Mazda3  19/100 (Speed model is 82)
      I think you need to look at a couple things.  One, in more recent models, Hyundai is getting better…both from a design standpoint and from a quality standpoint.  Two, Toyota and Honda are still the kings of quality, but Hyundai is working it’s way up the pack.

      P.S. If you want to see one of the reasons Hyundai is one of the few auto companies to actually increase it’s market share in 2009, and why the momentum is continuing, you only have to look at their more recent designs, like the 2009 car of the year, Genesis, or their 2010 Tuscon or 2011 Sonata (which is a huge styling statement.)

      http://www.hyundaisonata.com/

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    Fascinating.  I write a post about how, in objective terms as documented by non-ad-supported sources, Hyundai is reviewing well, and Honda and Toyota are still leading the pack, and the counterpoint is still
    * Hyundai (and Kia) is unreliable because of anecdotal evidence.
    * Honda and Toyota are falling in quality because that’s what the autoblogosphere groupthink is saying.
     
    I’m not seeing objective evidence that Ford, Hyundai, Honda or Toyota are doing badly in terms of reliability.  I am seeing a lot of subjective evidence that stems from people repeating the same points enough times that, out of cognitive laziness, people believe it’s true.
     
    I truly despair of the way we, as media consumers, have come to treat memes as truths.

    • 0 avatar
      Damage

      Our minds are made up! Don’t confuse us with facts!

    • 0 avatar
      Disaster

      I’m not sure which posts your referring to but the data bears out that Toyota has lost it’s the huge quality lead it enjoyed 10 years ago, as other makers have gotten better and Toyota had some slip ups.  Having said that, Toyota still ranks amongst the highest….holding the 1st (Scion) 4th(Toyota) and 5th(Lexus) place in the last Consumer Reports reliability survey.  Honda holds the 2nd(Acura) and 3rd(Honda.)  Those two companies locked up the top 5 spots…pretty darn impressive.  Those two companies are followed by Infiniti (6), Subaru (7) and then Hyundai.  I think Nissan, which fell all the way to 14th has been hit by a few particular problem models, like the Versa (which is actually a Renault design) and their RWD trucks…particularly the Titan which has been a disaster.

    • 0 avatar
      ponchoman49

      Autoblogosphere! LOL
      I get some of my data from real live human beings for which I work with 100’s at a local school and chat with pretty much all of them on there cars. I look at ratings from car magazines such as Consumer Reports, forums which have repeat customers complaining about the same defective or poorly designed items and then can make an educated statement that a car company has fallen in reliability. Toyota HAS fallen some in reliability especially with the new design Tundra, Camry, Prius and Tacoma and FJ Cruiser. I mean when people are continually having to bring there cars in for recalls, paint falling off from car washes, buckling tailgates, frame rot issues in 5 year old trucks, 3 replacement transmissions in numerous 2007 and 2008 Camrys that is all I need to hear. And these problems are not restricted to one vehicle but are common complaints that Toyota themselves have acknowledged. Hell even CR omitted the Camry/Tundra and Lexus GS series from there recommended list for several years after subpar reliability and mediocre crash test results on the truck. They listed the FJ Cruiser and Yaris as worst bets in new cars even.  And it is a proven fact that GM and Ford have improved somewhat in reliability. CR says so. JD Power says so. Owners are saying so. My own eyes and experience driving numerous rental cars or family owned cars says so. When I can drive a GM or Ford with 50K miles that was a prior rental that is 100% reliable with no squeaks and rattles that drives like new with the original brakes and components then that is all the proof  I need. When I drive a rental Camry and the plastic interior A-pillars fall off in my hand, the transmission hesitates and doesn’t know where it wants to be, the front storage console door wont stay closed, silver interior trim is worn off in spots- that tells me Toyota quality has slipped. Not defending any car company here because they all have problems but the evidence is overwhelming.

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    Hyundai is not a full line manufacturer stateside. Until they start making full size pickup trucks those results don’t paint an entirely clear picture
     
    They made the Kia Borrego, which was a pretty good truck, just exceedingly wrong for the time.  Hyundai would be insane to try to crack the full-size truck market unless they wanted to gamble on an existing player crumbling and leaving a hole they could establish themselves in.  You know, like Toyota is doing with the Tundra.
     
    I’d also like to point out the Hyundai, like Toyota, makes some very good medium-duty trucks, though unlike Toyota they’re not sold in North America.  People who say “the Asians can’t make a good truck” or “talk to me when Toyota/Hyundai can make an F-350″ are completely ignorant of, eg, Hino or Mitsubishi Fuso.  That they don’t sell such a product in North America is a marketing decision, not an example of technical or engineering wherewithal.
     
    Hyundai (and Toyota) are huge companies with vast and broad experience in making all sorts of products.  This is different from a smaller, more specialized marque like Honda or BMW.  Judging them based on one slice of their product portfolio is like judging GE based on their kitchen appliances.
     
    Especially considering that reliability/durability/quality throughout an automakers lineup may or may not be consistent.
     
    We covered that.  Save for the Entourage/Sedona, every single Hyundai, from the Accent/Rio to the Genesis is an above-average offering.  That a better batting average than GM, Chrysler, Nissan, VW and Mazda.

    • 0 avatar
      PennSt8

      Where am I advocating that Hyundai ought to jump into the light truck/pickup market? It was merely utilized as an EXAMPLE.
      Furthermore, I am not here to debate whether Hyundai produces reliable vehicles or not. Again missing the point here….Any sensible person with just a little bit of automotive knowledge knows that not all vehicles are created the same (even if they are sold by the same manufacturer). So stating that Hyundai out ranks all of the other brands mentioned above means almost nothing to the average consumer. While it may prove what Hyundai is capable of as a manufacturer it does nothing to address the fluctuations btwn powertrain and option combinations on various different models.

    • 0 avatar
      TrailerTrash

      psarhjinian

      I hope I can explain my position…

      While it may be true or it may not be that Hyundai produces good trucks, we, or at least the majority on this blog, don’t get to see, touch or test them.
      But it is very clear that unless they do bring them here and they do compete against US manufactures and in these conditions, who the hell knows how good they can be.

      We have a particular use of trucks, using them for both business and personal.  Our highways, lifestyles and other demands require very unique trucks.

      And, this being my most important point, vast valuable R&D and marketing dollars are spent on US trucks.
      This takes away from their auto investments.
      Failures can result in deadly over all health.  Lots of money was spent trying to give the consumer what they wanted and were buying.
      Then, when the fickle consumer swings left, the manufacturers are caught with their preverbal inventory pants down.
      If you were Hyundai in America with a limited and concentrated line, the damage was more easily avoided.
      I don’t feel so swayed by this narrow concentration as a sign overall international strength…just successful US marketing and strategy.
      .

  • avatar
    coatejo

    There are several Hyundai models that I would cross-shop including the Azera and Genesis. I’ve seen the Equus at the LA Auto show. It is gorgeous and compares very favorably with the Lexus LS.  From the owners I’ve talked to, they love ‘em. They are on a roll because they seem to be doing everything right. I say good for them.

  • avatar
    ajla

    I’m more disillusioned that Hyundai is going to be selling two long-wheelbase vehicles on a new rear wheel drive platform with a newly designed V8 engine.
     
    Meanwhile, over at Cadillac and Lincoln, what do we have? Decade old V8s tied to 4-spd autos. Engines shared with $26K Mazdas. A planned “BMW 3-series fighter”.  Front-wheel drive based platforms shared with downmarket brands.  No hope of a flagship in sight.

    • 0 avatar
      TrailerTrash

      Me thinks you need to drive a Ford?
      I don’t know, but the ecoboost is not a engine to be underestimated.
      I have one.
      Its awesome.
      You can’t compare it with any other engine for the cost.
      And isn’t the Lexus brand cosharing Toyota engines?
      Aren’t they all doing this?
      Isn’t the 2.o turbo in a vVkswagen the same engine in the Audi?

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      I’ve driven an Ecoboost (Taurus SHO). That engine is great- even though I hate its name.
       
      However, that still doesn’t make the MKS a flagship vehicle.  I don’t believe that a flagship Lincoln should have “compare it to what you get for the money” as part of the consideration.
       
      Yes, Lexus and Audi both use engines and platforms that are available on lower-level Toyotas and VWs.  However, there is no Toyota that is comparable with the LS, and no Volkswagen sold in North America is comparable to the A8.  Compare this to the similarity between the Taurus and the MKS. Or with the DTS and the Lucerne.
       
      What I want out of Cadillac and Lincoln is a vehicle that competes with the 7-series, S-class, A8, and LS460. If Hyundai can do something like the $60K+ Equus, then I think they can do it.
       

    • 0 avatar
      Disaster

      The Ecoboost is an engine that should have been developed 10 years ago…as is the case with most of Ford’s lineup.  Why not an Ecoboost 6…or 4?
      The MKS and MKZ are just Taurus’s and Fusion’s and while Toyota plays the same game, they are better at it, and they also have exclusive Lexus models.
      Ford did make an attempt at a RWD…the Lincoln LS, which actually wasn’t a bad car in it’s last year of life.  Unfortunately, it took Ford 10 years to approve it and after multiple delays, it was released too early in a “we have to get this darn thing out the door” mode.  The one good thing that came from Ford’s 6 Sigma program was the fixing of the LS…but by then, it’s reputation was ruined and it was killed.
      Now Ford is carrying a HUGE debt and competing against the likes of a rising Hyundai and a revitalized Toyota…not to mention the up and coming Chinese.  I would be surprised if it lasts the next century.

    • 0 avatar
      TrailerTrash

      Disaster and ajla
      Developed ten years ago?
      With direct injection?
      WHO had this engine in their domestics 10 years ago?

      The 4 is on its way…can’t do this all overnight.

      Isn’t the Hyundai Genesis a “look what you can get for less money” car?
      If so, why is that praised but the MKS bashed for having the same story???

      Why would Ford offer a competing vehicle to the BMW7?
      They don’t sell.
      I guess I should look up the numbers, but I am betting the 7 isn’t a killer here.
      Not in the US.
      For all that money, remember who or what Ford and Lincoln are….manufacturers for the American buyer.
      They never wanted to be THE expensive, only sell a few cars to the priveliged.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      @TT:
       
      The Genesis is a “look at the value” car.  However, I hold Lincoln and Cadillac to a much higher standard than I do Hyundai. For the Hyundai brand, building something like the Genesis sedan was an incredibly gutsy decision.
       
      Lincoln should offer a $70K luxury car (completely unique to that brand) because it would legitimize them as a luxury car maker. Right now they just sell high-content “richer all around” versions of available Ford brand vehicles.
       
      If the Ford Motor Company has no desire to sell a top-tier luxury car, and just sell to the everyman American, then why bother having a Lincoln brand at all?  Isn’t the idea of a luxury car brand to sell cars to the privileged?  Right now Lincoln seems more like what Mercury is supposed to be.
       
      With FoMoCo’s quality, reputation, and market share rapidly rising, now would be the perfect time to do something bold with the Lincoln brand.

    • 0 avatar
      TrailerTrash

      Well, that brings us to the REAL point.
      What the hell is a Mercury.
      Its not what is a Lincoln…its the whole Mercury in the middle stupid plan.
      Ford really confused this whole thing a long time ago.
      One time Lincoln was the ONE special car, then it added on and on and when it did, it made the Marcury brand stupid.

  • avatar
    ra_pro

    There is a very simple indicator that Hyundai builds quite reliable cars and it’s the fact that they sell increasingly well in North America where reliability is on average the most important product attribute (as it is in the rest of the world except in Europe where style and performance beat it any time). This has become a self-enforcing circle where magazines rank Hyundai high on reliability and consumers in turn buy them, most are rather happy, which enforces their reputation and ranking with the magazines.  GM, Chrysler and Ford on the other hand go in the opposite direction or at least used to for a very long time.
    At this point Hyundai doesn’t need excellent styling or performance since they still sell their cars on price and reliability. But if they want to charge Toyota prices their styling will have to improve and I don’t doubt that it will. It took Samsung only a few years to beat Sony in technology and style in LCD televisions when I thought that they never would, Koreans against Japanese and all that.

  • avatar
    Ernie

    ajla —  Just refuse to “pronounce it”
     
    “S-H-O”
     
    Why did they even bother putting that thing out in an autotranny?
    What would have happened to the EVO or STI if they’d have done a slushbox-only option?
     

  • avatar
    TrailerTrash

    I have addressed stealing before.
    Hyundai steals.
    They stole the MKS grill for the new Equus.
    They stole the Mercedes design for the Genesis.
    Now you tell me…is this a stolen Mazda?
    Boys and girls, this is rediculous!
    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/05/detroit-2010-hyundai-blue-will-phev-concept/

  • avatar
    don1967

    I’m still not drinkin’ the Korean Kool Aid yet.
     
    Whatever makes you feel good.
     
    I ended a 25-year love affair with Japanese cars to buy my first Hyundai, after poking in, around, and underneath it and finding it to be of superior construction to anything else.    It had thicker materials, sturdier hardware, better-sealed undercarriage, and other signs of quality construction.   It got strong reviews in every respectable publication, came with a superior warranty, and drove very nicely.
     
    Our Santa Fe is now in its third Canadian winter, and has pulled a camper all over North America without a whimper (or a single added drop of motor oil).   The only mechanical problem so far has been a slightly noisy stabilizer link, which the dealer replaced in 20 minutes at no charge.
     
    If this is “Kool-Aid”, go ahead and fill me up.

    • 0 avatar
      TonyJZX

      People still not ‘buying’ the Korean revolution will still be saying that when the Chinese get here… 5 yrs later and when GM/Chrysler are still sucking on the government teat.


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