By on August 6, 2009

 

One of the least publicized aspects of the “New” GM is how much of the old company remains on the books. More to the point, bad ideas with new window dressings still reign (Cutlass) supreme. But not the new 2006—sorry, 2010—Chevrolet Camaro: this idea had the right stuff. On paper. In the real world?

Much like Jay Bernard’s Pontiac GTO rendition of 1999, the Camaro appeals more as an Alias-generated prototype viewed on a flat panel monitor. Sure, the proportions are suitably muscular. But someone forgot to sweat the details. The Camaro SS’s bulldog front bumper, pregnant fender flares and breadbox rear deck reek of haste, dying for an evening with a clay modeler’s wire-loop tool. And what the last F-body did for hatchbacks, the new Camaro does for the boot: reasonable space but cumbersome usage makes it a pointless endeavor. Combined with a skyward beltline and miniscule greenhouse, even the Camaro SS’s nine-inch wide rear wheels get lost in the flab. And this ain’t no sexy, slippery F-body. The new Camaro has the poise and elegance of Tenacious D on skateboards.

The interior reeks and creaks of GM interior’s stock and trade: look for visual pleasure, yet touch for sensory disapproval. Aside from stitched armrests on the SS’ door panels, Camaro occupants sit between a rock and a hard place. Faux silver trim accents the flimsy vent registers on a brittle dashboard, then encompass the area normally associated with cloth/vinyl padding on the door panels. (Even the Chevrolet Aveo got that right.) Sitting in the Camaro’s cramped rear cubby reinforces the impression. The interior is awash in a blandness that would not feel out of place in a Chrysler Sebring. What happened to the world-class interiors you promised, Mr. Lutz?

That’s not to say the Camaro’s interior can’t be fun. The busy analog gauges sit in retro square binnacles, while secondary readouts rest atop the console, with its pitch-perfect short handle shifter. The SS gets an ergonomic steering wheel complete with an M-series worthy logo on the bottom of the tiller. There’s a respectable Boston Acoustics audio system and the seats aren’t half bad . . . unless you try the thrones in a Dodge Challenger SRT-8.

But Camaro interiors have been crap for years. The spatial challenge never dissuaded the Bowtie faithful for one reason: Chevy’s small block V8. With six smooth-shifting, close-ratio speeds and a burly 6.3 liters and 422hp of LS3 underfoot, the SS’s performance is absolutely right for the nameplate. Aside from the (industry standard) practice of throttle delay at tip-in, the Camaro’s power is effortless, refined and angry enough to ruin an import’s day, one quarter-mile at a time. We’re torquing the mid-to-low 13 second range—much like the outgoing Camaro SS and its low-po LS1 mill.

All of this makes sense, given the fifth-generation Camaro’s portly underpinnings. Blessed with plenty of NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) reducing materials, an independent rear axle and the necessary bulk associated with the Zeta Platform, the 3800lb Camaro SS rides like a champ, obliterating any bump in the road, rolling down the highway like a refined German autobahn cruiser. Pony car heritage be damned, the new Camaro is made for Baby Boomers who remember the good ol’ days, but demand Lexus-like refinement in the prime of their lives.

Aye, there’s the rub. The Chevrolet Camaro still wanders like a lost Taliban in the Tora Bora; angry and full of vigor, but without any focused direction. No longer a Panhard-infused, knuckle-dragging back road barnstormer, the new Camaro has enough inertia-infused body roll to feel like an overstuffed gymnast in quick corners. The multi-branded Camaro/Brembo calipers have a Bumblebee-like identity crisis, but they stop like a Decepticon in Optimus Prime’s wake, sans nose-dive.

There’s a respectable amount of on-center steering feel. Navigating left hand turns around medians, pedestrians and subcompacts requires craning around the A-pillar to ensure a safe and speedy getaway. While it’s possible to drive the Camaro fast, don’t expect an easy time, what with a soft suspension under the hard and slippery bucket seats. Like most of today’s “Fat Elvis” American performance icons, the Chevrolet Camaro SS is suited to freeway sweepers, not SCCA road courses. And that’s a damn shame.

The fifth generation Camaro’s marketing push in the “new” GM’s portfolio notwithstanding, it appears the remnants of the old GM are alive and well. Uh-oh. If the latest Camaro was a clean sheet redesign, GM wouldn’t give the Zeta platform the time of day. It’s simply too big and heavy to provide the lively performance associated with the Camaro brand. Sorry, model. Even if GM’s platform engineers got the right bones for the beast, the crap interior proves that the “new” GM isn’t ready for the change that customers, taxpayers and the American economy expect from a company (supposedly) changing its ways.

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141 Comments on “Review: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS/RS...”


  • avatar
    educatordan

    Great writing for this review, guy actually sounds like an author. Although I was hoping Baruth would review it just to see if he could ‘splode the transmission.

  • avatar
    Paul Niedermeyer

    Camaro and Challenger will be short-lived flashes in the pan.

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    …pregnant fender flares…

    God, do I hate this particular styling quirk…

    That said, I do like this car. It’s very nice to live with and, in base V6 trim, a screaming performance bargain.

    Well, yes, I do hate the gauges. And the trunk is fantastically irritating. And it’s a bit overstyled. Well, a lot overstyled. But it’s a 300hp car for the price of a Civic Si!

  • avatar
    twotone

    Great review, but I doubt anyone who buys this car would notice (or care about) any of the nits you have picked. They are buying image, power and low price. Want finesse, balance and a quality interior? Buy German.

    Twotone

  • avatar
    doctorv8

    I’ve been driving a similar model over the last couple of days, and I have to say that the interior is not that bad. But then again, I feel the same way about the C6 Corvette’s guts….while not best in class, it is entirely acceptable for a $35k car with 426 HP, 6 speeds, and a firm 4 wheel independent suspension bolted to a nice, rigid chassis. The car drives far more expensive than it is. Plus, the LS3 (which is a 6.2, not a 6.3) is one of the best motors in all sportscardom.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    Interesting review. I guess four years of planning still wasn’t enough time for GM to get it right. New GM… same as the old GM.

  • avatar
    SherbornSean

    I really want to hate the new Camaro, but it looks so hot, I can’t.

  • avatar
    tauronmaikar

    It is a GM so I don’t even need to read the review to know it is crap. This is a matter of statistics. What are the odds this one is good when 99 out of 100 cars from GM are steaming piles of dog poo?

  • avatar
    rpol35

    “The Camaro SS’s bulldog front bumper, pregnant fender flares and breadbox rear deck reek of haste, dying for an evening with a clay modeler’s wire-loop tool.”

    Haste?! This friggin’ car has been under development for three years. Sounds more like “reek of sloth”.

  • avatar
    theflyersfan

    I couldn’t keep a straight face driving this thing if I felt that Wall-E was staring at me the whole time!

  • avatar
    Stingray

    I like the new Camaro, but somehow, I’d put the $$$ in a Challenger.

    Or a Mustang.

    Honestly, after this generation of cars, I doubt they will have a V8, if pony cars survive…

    So, for those who have the money, BUY.

  • avatar

    Although you may not like the exterior looks, their are a lot of people that disagree with you. The proof is in the inability to keep up with demand in the showroom.

    Could it have been better? Sure, but remember, it is mimicking a muscle car. And it sure is a hell of a lot better than any other Camaro that came before it. It outruns the Mustang and to many, it looks better, and that is all that really matters to Camaro buyers.

  • avatar
    Stunned_BB

    I bought an 09 WRX for about $27 and have dumped a couple grand into intake, exhaust, ems and road stability. I’d much rather have my ride any day than this pregnant piece of American-retro crap! But then I was the same guy that as a teenager had a 67 Bug that could blow the doors off any Detroit iron that was 350 cubic inches or below.

  • avatar
    walksatnight

    To me the last visually attractive Camaro was the 1969 model. This go around is better than it has been since then but it still doesn’t quite float my particular boat.

    However, I am sure that many Average Joe’s will like it just fine. The specs look pretty impressive and the 6 cylinder version should be a pretty good bargain at the MSRP price. Plus the logo says ‘Camaro’ on it which still means something. Unless North America collapses into a inflationary depression or some horrible quality/safety issue comes to light, GM should sell plenty of ‘em.

  • avatar
    onerareviper

    BY FAR the best looking Camaro since the originals. How can anyone think the last generation ‘door wedge’ looked better than this???? Please… This car is a hit ‘visually’ among the public, IMHO. Every car show I’ve attended, this car has been surrounded by on-lookers. Including the NAIAS. Although I’m sure the handling dynamics could be improved, I don’t think most people are expecting ‘corvette-like’ athleticism. And 99% of potential buyers think ‘SCCA’ refers to some collegiate basketball division in the south. Chevy has a hit on there hands, especially at this price point. I say job well done!

  • avatar
    rudiger

    The deal-breaker on the new Camaro is the high-beltline, gun-slit, ‘gansta’ side windows. I had a 4th-gen f-body and outward visibility on this one looks even worse. Stylish? Maybe, but a tough car to drive on a regular basis. For a daily-driver, the ‘Stang and Challenger trump the new Camaro.

    Otherwise, seems like a nice ride, particularly the value-oriented (but still speedy) six-cylinder. I mean, hey, when GM puts a dual exhaust as standard equipment on their secretary-special ponycar, things can’t be all that bad.

  • avatar
    reclusive_in_nature

    Buy it while this kind of power is still legal/available. With the Lacrosse Super, G8, and damn near any Chevy with an SS attached to it going out of existence, this is about the only GM product I’d consider right now. The rest is all slowly becoming government-ass-kissing, unperforming-eco-greenie crap.

  • avatar
    meefer

    So basically the same old song – Camaro better on paper, Mustang kicks its butt in sales (where it matters).

    And 35K? A used Vette is calling my name for that much coin.

  • avatar
    Buckshot

    Ugly.
    Looks like some kind of fantasy Matchbox car.

  • avatar
    panzerfaust

    The red one’s look like “Lightening McQueen” with an antisocial personality disorder. I think Chevy stole the design from Pixar. Well, actually the Pixar versions of race cars look better.

  • avatar
    NoSubstitute

    I saw a red SS cruising around Carmel a couple of weeks ago. I guess the crowd that was ignoring the Ferraris and Porsches along side it to ogle the Camaro were probably just staring at the bulldog front bumper and pregnant fender flares. Thanks for clearing that up.

    I haven’t driven one yet, but given the size and weight wouldn’t be surprised if it drives as you suggest (i.e. like pretty much every other overweight overpowered contemporary car). Of its two main competitors, I preferred the Mustang GT to the Challenger SRT-8, if only because the former has a bit of lightness added and the missing rear IRS brings some bounce to its step. The Challenger reminded me more than a little of our C55; when a muscle car drives like a Mercedes you know something’s gone amiss.

  • avatar
    tauronmaikar

    After one year of use this Camaro will be costing less than $20K.

    Instead, I would rather spend my $35K on a 2 year old BMW 335i Coupe. A cheap ECU flash will take it to 400HP and more torques than the Camaro. Then you are left with a car that drives better in every condition, is more practical, has an engine that sings and not burps, more economic, way better looking, more reliable and, hell, is not american.

  • avatar
    NulloModo

    The rear fender flares remind me of the Dodge Charger, which in turn makes me think cheap and poorly built, so, in that regard, a deduction of style points. The rest of the exterior looks pretty nice, a huge improvement over the F-body cars, which IMO had a design that should have never left the planning stages, whoever the hell approved that bland wedge should be fired and blackballed from automotive styling forevermore.

    Interior is boring, the gauge pod near the shifter is ergonomically idiotic, and material qualities leave me wanting, but for the class it sits above the Challenger and below the Mustang, so, at least it didn’t end up in last place.

    Engine-wise, nothing to say but wow. So what if the Mustang can outhandle it despite having an ‘archaic’ live rear axle, in a straight line the LS motor embarasses the competition (at least until the Coyote V8 comes out). GM always did make a great V8, and that is the saving grace of this car. Stlying may be clumsy in places, the interior may look and feel like it was phoned in, but GMs powertrain department apparently still takes their job seriously.

  • avatar
    Paul Niedermeyer

    The pics don’t look like the final production version (as in headlights), or am I just blinded by all that beauty.

  • avatar
    ajla

    $31K (assuming no dealer markup) for a brand new LS3 hooked up to a six-speed manual isn’t too bad.

    I’m sure one could buy a used C6 or an LS6-powered CTS-V or C5 Z06 for less, but potential maintenance/repair costs could be off-putting.

    But then there’s the 2005-2006 GTO with the LS2 for about $20K. That’s where I think I’d spend my money.

  • avatar

    Funny that the Camaro underneath the skin is a Pontiac G8, which is a car lauded by everyone for how it rides and handles (even with it’s body roll), yet the same characteristics are frowned upon in this review?

    Lets not forget the round, bulbous ox-cart that was the 4th gen. Camaro. To style it they took a 3rd gen. (a sharp looking car), rounded off all the corners and inflated it. It didn’t even look like a proper Camaro, and the interior was directly from Playskool. It had no handling to speak of whatsoever, it was a complete point and shoot car. And I almost bought one (Firebird WS6, the one that looked good) after driving a few. But didn’t.

    With this car GM righted everything that was thoroughly wrong about the previous generation and they built it out of the best car platform they had in their global toybox. They blessed it with the iconic styling of the original (parked next to any other Camaros or cars in general it makes them look awful). The interior is a Lexus compared to the old one (and gives up nothing to the 2010 Mustang) and they gave it a semblence of refinement and a bit of handling to please people of all ages.

    My family has had quite a few muscle cars (classic and modern) in and out of our garages and one thing I’ve always appreciated about them all was that they had a pretty comfortable ride. I’m glad GM retained that and added some cornering ability. Again, that’s a bad thing? Bueller?

    It’s too bad that the weight has gone up, which is the only thing that didn’t improve from the last generation. But it’s acceptable. Mustangs are within spitting distance of the Camaro in real world curb weight now and every other car on the road today is heavy compared to prior generations.

    Oh, and you might want to look at the prices the other neo-muscle cars fetch before you dog on the price of a Camaro SS. Once you do you’ll realize it’s the best bargain of the three by far.

    A 315hp 2010 Mustang will run you about the same money as a Camaro SS (with 426hp) and nearly $40k loaded, not including dealer accessories you might want. The 2010 Mustang GT I test drove had HIDs and an automatic transmission as options, it’s sticker was $37,900.

    It also drove just like the 2006 GT I looked at years ago, it drove old. Really old. It still has a crap interior and it still drives like crap on perfectly smooth roads. The Mustang is the kind of car that turns in good numbers on paper but doesn’t feel good doing it in the real world. Not like the new Camaro does. There’s something to be said for that, especially when Ford is selling you an old car with old engineering and most of it’s old styling and interior. And it still has a buggy axle and the worst seats (and smallest backseat and cargo area) of the three. No thanks, Ford.

  • avatar
    jmhm2003

    It’s a tight race for “nicest car in the trailer park” between this and the 2010 Mustang. The Challenger is already D.O.A. in the marketplace, so the it appears the mullets have spoken. If you have no concept of self esteem then one of these may be for you.

  • avatar
    carguy

    $35K is a very competitive market for sporty cars and for that kind of cash buyers expect the details to be right. Good for GM that it sells well but so did the Saturn Sky/Pontiac Solstice and they quickly faded into obscurity. Let’s see how it sells in a year.

  • avatar
    NulloModo

    TriShield – A fully loaded Mustang GT and Camaro SS might be somewhat similar in price, but the Camaro doesn’t even have an option for Navigation or a backup camera (amgonst other things) that the Mustang includes at that price. Considering every review of the Mustang, including both print and internet journalism, has rated its handling better than the Camaro, and that those same reviews have stated the interior is better, if you think the Camaro edges out in either area, perhaps you misread the model year on the Mustang with which you compared it.

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    so the it appears the mullets have spoken. If you have no concept of self esteem then one of these may be for you.…

    No, if you have no self esteem, there’s great buys to be had on full size SUV’s to drive empty to work. For the poor in pocket as well as poor in filling the pants, there are some great deals on used Excursions or other similar selfish mobiles…if I’m going to guzzle, I going to be going fast, “mullet” horseshit be damned.

  • avatar
    Licinius

    Style is in the eye of the beholder, and the target audience has spoken about the new Camaro–it’s an unqualified hit.

    In my humble opinion, of course.

  • avatar
    Dimwit

    What really surprised me, according to the versions going past me on the highway from the factory, is the crappy paint for this MY. Mostly the opaque enamels. The only nice looking clearcoat colour is the silver.
    And that beltline is waaaay too high, as in your shoulder height. Still, this is all picking nits. Even a blind man could tell you it’s better than an Aveo, Impala, Solstice or Aura. GM needs far more models like this (segment wise) than their usual halfassed offerings.

  • avatar
    don1967

    Sajeev +1 Paul +1

    A temporary diversion before the inevitable trash heap. On the positive side, I hear that Chevy makes an excellent wash bucket, which I will need to clean my Hyundai.

  • avatar
    NulloModo

    Licinius – What I wonder about the Camaro’s hit status is how long it will last. Being gone from the market for a while, there are a lot of GM pony fans who had pent up desire (and dollars) to own a new Camaro. The world is full of examples of cars that were hits coming out of the gates, only to become flops as the novelty wore off. The PT Cruiser, HHR, Magnum, 300C, Charger, Avalanch, etc, all lit up the charts for s short while then fell into oblivion.

    Everyone pretty much realized the Camaro was going to be a hit coming out of the gate, same as if Toyota brought back the Supra, or Honda the CRX. The big question is going to be, is after the initial glow wears off, will this Camaro be a 350Z or a GTO.

  • avatar
    rivercat30

    Saw one up close for the first time at an auction recently. Gotta say, Fisher Price did a great job with the interior. Love the looks otherwise. But, eh, GM. No thanks.

  • avatar
    walksatnight

    Pssst..
    NulloModo – You might want to remove the PT Cruiser from your flop list. Chrysler has only sold 1.5 million of them (about twice the number of Miata’s ever sold).

  • avatar
    GeeDashOff

    422 HP out of 6.3 L, thats about 67 HP/L.
    My 2004, 165 HP, 2.5L Subaru boxer 4 is the same, in an economy car. LOL.
    /end troll

  • avatar
    Slare

    @jmhm2003

    Hey Beavis, I can assure you driving a Camaro is not a self-esteem booster. Elitist pricks stare at you like you some backwoods retard. Other drivers are rude to you. Cops pick you out from 3 miles away. People over the age of 18 assume you have something wrong with you. Strangely enough, things have reached the point where you gotta really appreciate the car for what it is in order to own one. The self esteem booster folks are not in Camaros these days.

    To all the people saying it is too expensive or comparing it to used cars, well, you haven’t been new car shopping lately, have you? 30k doesn’t buy much excitement anymore these days fellas, and if you have actually been out there looking at real transaction prices, you know that. And any used car can be made into a better value argument than any new car. You’re not impressing anyone with that logic.

    By the way, I am not a fanboy and I don’t care for the new Camaro overall. I think it looks nice enough on the outside, but I hate the tiny window trend, it’s too big, and the interior is not my cup of tea. The weight is also an issue but even that would be forgivable if they packaged it right like the CTS. As the previous owner of 4 different F-bodies, I want something different than a SRT with a crappier interior.

    It kills me to say it but if the Mustang gets a true 400hp mill and a 6 speed, it’s not even a contest for me. And I’m exactly the buyer this car should be attracting.

    jmhm2003

    It’s a tight race for “nicest car in the trailer park” between this and the 2010 Mustang. The Challenger is already D.O.A. in the marketplace, so the it appears the mullets have spoken. If you have no concept of self esteem then one of these may be for you.

  • avatar
    bomber991

    You guys want to the truth about why everyone likes to look at this car?

    The 2010 Camaro looks like a damn cartoon! Seriously, it looks like the prototype sketches that the car companies show off. Usually by the time cars get to production they look more like cars.

  • avatar
    reclusive_in_nature

    To Slare +1 (million)

    I have a good feeling if I used one of the many stereotypes that’s applied to import owners (European and Asian) my post would be promptly removed and an e-mail would be sent reiterating the rules about flaming.

  • avatar
    Adub

    People can say the Camaro is a hit but that story will be told by the sales numbers. I’ve seen many in person and think the Mustang is the better looker.

  • avatar

    Thank you all for reading. Hope it got the blood pumping a bit, one way or another.

    ———————————-
    twotone : Great review, but I doubt anyone who buys this car would notice (or care about) any of the nits you have picked. They are buying image, power and low price. Want finesse, balance and a quality interior? Buy German.

    Well, the balance and quality interior (and crazy toys like NAVI and a clear roof) of the Mustang seems to make more reviewers pretty happy. Finesse, not so much…but then again I like Pony/Muscle cars with precious little finesse.

    ———————————-
    westcott : Although you may not like the exterior looks, their are a lot of people that disagree with you. The proof is in the inability to keep up with demand in the showroom.

    Sure. That will last for the next 6-12 months or so. Then it’ll be like the Camaros of yesteryear, collecting dust on dealership lots when production surpasses demand.

    There’s a reason the Camaro’s lack of widespread appeal made the 99+ F-bodies (combined) sell worse than the V6 Mustang, and the comments generated around 5th gen here aren’t swaying me to any other conclusion.

    ———————————-
    onerareviper : Chevy has a hit on there hands, especially at this price point. I say job well done!

    How about this: betcha a 6-pack of your regional beer that not only will sales drop off like ANY new design after a 6-12 months, the Mustang will continue to spank the Camaro at this price point.

    ———————————-
    NoSubstitute : I saw a red SS cruising around Carmel a couple of weeks ago. I guess the crowd that was ignoring the Ferraris and Porsches along side it to ogle the Camaro were probably just staring at the bulldog front bumper and pregnant fender flares. Thanks for clearing that up.

    New designs become old hat sooner than later. Just you wait. There’s a regional beer bet in it for you too.

    ———————————-
    TriShield : Funny that the Camaro underneath the skin is a Pontiac G8, which is a car lauded by everyone for how it rides and handles (even with it’s body roll), yet the same characteristics are frowned upon in this review?

    Do you really think people have the same performance expectations for a performance family sedan and the legendary Camaro pony car? I sure hope not.

    ———————————-
    TriShield : The interior is a Lexus compared to the old one (and gives up nothing to the 2010 Mustang)

    A steaming pile of you-know-what was nicer than the old one, and comparing the Camaro’s rock wall dash to a 2010 Mustang means you should probably take another look.

    ———————————-
    What this beholder sees about the writing style of this review, though, is OVERKILL. Jeez louise, Sajeev, do you really sit around trying to come up with this stuff?

    LOL, I don’t need to sit around…I was trained to eat/breathe/sleep it. The two years I studied art, ID and ID with a specialty in Transportation design made that happen. You might have to take my word for it. Or not.

    ———————————-
    Licinius : This is a consistent problem at TTAC– I find so much strutting and preening in the reviews they’re actually kinda irritating.

    I think it’s sad that people can’t enjoy art criticism for what it is. Trust me, the people who designed the Camaro went through this gauntlet at school. They can handle it.

    People talk about art and design at length elsewhere in the world, if TTAC is that voice for cars, so be it.

  • avatar
    ExtraO

    @Buckshot

    “Ugly.
    Looks like some kind of fantasy Matchbox car.”

    Brother, you can say that again. Most perceptive comment on the whole page. It looks like some 8 year old’s Cap’n Crunch, sugar-overdose hallucination of a ’69.

  • avatar
    ambulancechaser

    FYI, 2010 Camaro SS/RS will set you back $57k in Canada. That’s used Z06/M3/XKR/SLK 55 money!

  • avatar
    ajla

    @Sajeev:

    Is the pedal placement better than in the F-body or GTO?

    Also what is the shift action and clutch feel like?

    I know your review said it was “smooth-shifting” but could you elaborate a bit more on the car’s transmission characteristics?

  • avatar

    ajla : Is the pedal placement better than in the F-body or GTO?

    Also what is the shift action and clutch feel like?

    I know your review said it was “smooth-shifting” but could you elaborate a bit more on the car’s transmission characteristics?

    1. Don’t remember how the pedals were in the GTO, its been several years since I’ve sat in one. Ditto the F-body, so I don’t think I can comment. Sorry.

    2. The shifter and associated parts in the gearbox were quite nice, this might be the smoothest shifting 6-speed I’ve felt behind an LS-motor’d vehicle. Not Porsche 911 effortless, but a far cry from the notchy T-56 in the F-body/C5.

    3. Aside from the shifts, the only noteworthy item I recall is the quick clutch uptake: it felt like it was 2″ off the floor when it grabbed. But the clutch was a quick study and I suspect it’s no problem for someone who buys the car and lives with it.

  • avatar

    This car is as impractical as owning a Corvette.

    I don’t see what the draw to this car is other than its “newness”.

    Once enough people get one, it will be boring and no one will care about it. That’s when its sales will slow to a crawl. An audi A4 or BMW 3 or Mercedes C has more longevity at the SS’ price range.

  • avatar
    Detroit Todd

    This:

    What this beholder sees about the writing style of this review, though, is OVERKILL. Jeez louise, Sajeev, do you really sit around trying to come up with this stuff? I mean, a little humor is nice, but you’re reviewing a car here, not a contestant on American Idol. This is a consistent problem at TTAC– I find so much strutting and preening in the reviews they’re actually kinda irritating.

    Gets This:

    I don’t need to sit around…I was trained to eat/breathe/sleep it. The two years I studied art, ID and ID with a specialty in Transportation design made that happen. You might have to take my word for it. Or not.

    Heh! Hammer meets nail, and nail doesn’t like it.

    I’ve said it from the beginning, and I’ll say it again now — plenty of people love this car, and all the right people hate this car. GM has sold and will sell the hell of out it.

    Some of you guys must like to rub your wang on the dashboard or something, what with the “soft-touch materials” obsession. Hint: dashboard materials could not matter less with this car. It’s kind of like you’re chastising someone for using the wrong fork (who doesn’t care). Does the dash bulge in the summer or crack in the winter? No? Then the dashboard is just fine. That’s not why anyone shops the car, folks.

    The Camaro is strictly a $/hp proposition, along with exterior style. And that is enough for those interested in this car.

    I’m glad it’s selling well. It’s a beautiful car. And the lesser part of me is glad that it irritates the hell out of all the right people. :)

    No, no soft-touch dash, and no dubious $1,500 service at 6,000 miles, either. Just loud, brash American horespower with a sexy exterior.

    The great unwashed tend to enjoy themselves, without seeking permission from anyone. Life is good.

  • avatar
    ZekeToronto

    ambulancechaser wrote:

    FYI, 2010 Camaro SS/RS will set you back $57k in Canada. That’s used Z06/M3/XKR/SLK 55 money!

    Damn, that’s closing in on new S5 territory. Maybe I’m getting old, but I know which V8 coupe I’d pick. Although several F-bodies played bit parts in my misspent youth (no gory crashes or mechanical nightmares), I honestly don’t know what GM could do to get me back in one of their products today.

    ExtraO wrote:

    It looks like some 8 year old’s Cap’n Crunch, sugar-overdose hallucination of a ‘69.

    Exactly.

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    FYI, 2010 Camaro SS/RS will set you back $57k in Canada. That’s used Z06/M3/XKR/SLK 55 money!

    I’m still confused as to why anyone would choose to the V8. Unlike the Mustang, it’s not a cheap step-up to eight cylinders from six; also unlike the Mustang, the base six is really, really good.

  • avatar
    gimmeamanual

    Flashpoint:

    What exactly is impractical about owning a Corvette? My father had one as his only car for two years, and drove it year-round through Massachusetts snow. If you don’t need to carry kids or haul stuff, it’s no more impractical than anything else with 2 seats.

  • avatar
    seanx37

    My local Chevy dealer has Corvettes red-tagged at $38500. I am sure they would take less. Why would you spend $35000 on a Camaro? More importantly, why did GM forget the market for Camaros. Young blue collar guys getting their first new car with their first job. Now, of course, those jobs are gone. The market is too. This car should have cost $22000. Tops. And weighed 1000 lbs less. Say, a Slightly enlarged Solstice with a V8

  • avatar
    CaliCarGuy

    sooooo the car got 3 stars because of the interior? really? great review but i mean come on..

  • avatar
    onerareviper

    Sajeev + other posters,

    Yes, it will be a hit for GM. Of course how you define ‘hit’ is the question. After the abysmal sales of the previous generation, I believe this model will set sales records (for the Camaro). Will it sell as many as the Mustang? Probably not… But did it ever? I don’t think it has to achieve that goal to be considered ‘a hit’.

    Here’s what makes me say ‘WTF’ when I read your review + many comments posted. ‘You people – ;)’ JUST DON’T GET IT! Let me explain… You (and others) speak of things like ‘touchable’ surfaces. Or perfectly aligned sculpted body panels. Or ‘Lexus-like’ ride quality. Or nimble performance. Refinement. etc… WTF!!!!! These are things YOU PEOPLE demand, not the typical Camaro buyer. Lets be honest, most (if not all) of the people posting negative comments about the Camaro WOULD NOT BE CAUGHT DEAD driving one, no matter what. People that care about HP per liter. People that care about ‘soft touch’ interior buttons. People that care about ‘not looking like a red-neck’. These folks are not, nor ever have been the market for the Camaro.

    Soooo, what do potential muscle car buyers want? 1.) Looks, looks, looks. 2.) Price 3.) HP + Torque. 4.) Looks, looks, looks. 5.) Engine options. 6.) Aftermarket performance parts (i.e. – ability to ‘soup up’ for minimal cost). 7.) Price. 8.) Did I mention looks? 9.) Moderate comfort + decent suspension. 10.) Decent fuel economy.

    IMHO, GM ‘NAILED’ the list above. Anything extra is just icing on the cake. For those that want interior perfection, ‘soft touch’ components, refinement, HP per liter – LOL, there’s a market for you… It’s not the Camaro, AND THAT’S OK! To be honest, I don’t have any interest in purchasing the new Camaro. But that doesn’t mean I can’t see (and appreciate) the Camaro + GM for producing a car that ‘nails’ its target audience.

  • avatar
    Ronman

    I think, having driven both the V6 and SS Camaros, that the former is the best you can get for the Money spent. and latter edges on that description, but with a mnaual transmisison it’s a handful of fun.

    GM could have made the camaro the best car in their stables, and i think the platform has the potential, but they needed to sell the car, and no one, i don’t care how many times you log into Camaro5.com, is going to pay corvette money for a camaro.

    so for the price i think it’s one of Chevy’s best cars. but i don’t think it would be the brand’s savior….

  • avatar
    Campisi

    The first paragraph sets the tone for the whole article, really, and gives away the rest.

  • avatar
    ctoan

    onerareviper

    Who are these buyers? Sure, a lot of people might like the idea of having one, but who actually buys it? You’ve got yuppies, who don’t mind having an impractical, uncomfortable car, rich enthusiasts who don’t mind its lack of handling ability, and the occasional masochistic baby boomer.

    Most baby boomers won’t put up with the poor seating position, lack of visibility, and graceless interior. It might get occasional use as a commuter car by the lucky bastards who commute down sparsely populated country roads, but who among everyone else really wants to sit in the Submaro while slogging their way through traffic?

    There’s a strange notion/design precept of “no compromise” in this sort of car makes a car that accelerates fast and looks good, but is a chore to back out of your driveway. The enthusiast says “That’s not the point!” in vaguely condescending language, while the buying public finds something comfortable and realizes that 315 hp is a fine amount if you don’t get so hung up on the fact that it’s less.

    As others mentioned, the original target market (the young and the working class) is gone; there’s no cash and no credit for a $35k car, and at this point they’re lucky to have a Corolla instead of a Cavalier.

    And yeah, it’s selling fairly well right now…but the showing off market isn’t sustainable in the least.

  • avatar
    fli317

    Detroit Todd and Onerareviper have nailed it. People who love muscle cars, love them for a few reasons. These reasons are very subjective. But then, also are subjective, are the reasons that these soft dash board loving people love the cars that they love. I am personally unsure of what all can be done with a soft dashboard. To each their own. For muscle car people, these reasons include looks, horsepower, noise, and affordability.

    A huge component of all of the above is the V8 motor. GM’s drivetrains just plain rock. Ford’s been fooling around with their overhead cam v8 with pretty good success. But, GM should be commended for making their pushrod v8s so reliable, powerful and efficient.

    For me, I am in the market for a Second Gen Camaro or Firebird. I like them for many of the reasons as stated above. Some of the reasons include scaring people who would drive the Audi A4. I am proud not to have any idea what an Audi A4, BMW 3, or Mercedes C is. I have heard of these cars, certainly, but wouldn’t know one without its nameplate being visible. I like the older muscle cars because they are rowdy and have v8s. I don’t care how soft the dash board is and I am not impressed with car companies that do their best to make you forget that you are driving a car.

    But I also think that ctoan has a point, even though he unsuccessfully attempted to argue with onerareviper. These cars are very impractical. Toyota will sell a lot more Corollas. But for me, thats why I love these cars. If you can afford to drive what you want, then you do. If not, drive a Corolla-compromise. It makes much more financial sense. But this gets back to my original point of subjectivity. This Camaro will be pursued and sold at auctions long after anyone remembers the Corolla C or the Mercedes C. Just drive what you want, or at least until we all have to drive Obamamobiles- as mandated by law. I think GM did a fine job.

  • avatar
    TonyJZX

    i waiting for baruth to savage this

    “no good for maximum street speed”

  • avatar
    shaker

    Detroit Todd: “The great unwashed tend to enjoy themselves, without seeking permission from anyone. Life is good.”

    Quote of the day.

    It’s a sexy car, goes good, handles well, V6 version has class-leading fuel economy and power, and it’s affordable.

    If I were younger (awoke every morning with a stiff pecker instead of a stiff neck), I’d take a serious look at one of these.

    Quite a few Camaro/Chally/Mustang reviews picked the new Camaro as the winner (admittedly on subjective qualities), and the Mustang usually had the optional “track pack” suspension upgrade which (I assume) wouldn’t do much for the handling on bumpy (real world) corners.

    Also seems like there’s an undercurrent of derision for “Government Motors” in the review, which is not judging the car on its own merits.

    The Mustang is a great car, but it’s a time-worn platform and will need an upgrade soon. The Camaro is technically superior in most ways but it’s “In-Yer-Face” styling will limit its sales to fans and people who want to drive something that stands out.

    Disclaimer: I owned a ’97 Camaro V6 for 11 years, and it was a solid, reasonably efficient, reasonably reliable, fun-to-drive car that a 6’4″ American could drive comfortably.

  • avatar
    mkco

    I REALLY wanted to consider the Camaro as a replacement for my current 328 coupe, coming off lease in November. But as soon as I sat in the Camaro, that was the end. It felt like I was sitting in a cave, what with the slit windows and beltline at my my shoulders. And I’m 6’3″

    It’s like they took a G8, shorten and squished it, then added Camaro styling cues. Oh wait, that’s what they did do, isn’t it?

    Sorry, I’d rather have a G8.

  • avatar
    KixStart

    onerareviper: “Lets be honest, most (if not all) of the people posting negative comments about the Camaro WOULD NOT BE CAUGHT DEAD driving one, no matter what.”

    I learned to drive on a ’67. I’d buy the right Camaro but this is not it. It’s not 1967 any more and Lutz’ one trick pony is inadequate.

    someone else: “Why would anybody buy the V8?”

    The car and its owner are not about adequate power, they about excessive power. The V8 is a natural. Why buy an also-ran V6? And it’s heavy, so the V6 power is sapped by the weight of the vehicle. Drop a couple hundred lbs and the V6 would be a great motivator.

    shaker: “If I were younger (awoke every morning with a stiff pecker instead of a stiff neck),”

    Are you getting regular excercise? Yoga seems surprisingly beneficial to me. Try a glucosamine/chondritin supplement. And maybe some calcium.

  • avatar
    Mark MacInnis

    OT…..but at the risk of incurring the wrath of the B&B about Mercury, (ya know, “Dead brand walking” and all that….)I would like this retro trend to be extended to just ONE MORE retro model from the late 60′s.

    I’d like to see what Ford’s design team could do with the idea of developing a Mercury Cougar variant to the existing Mustang platform….based on the ’68 to ’71 years.

    It would be interesting. Marketing and profitable…no. But nice to see.

  • avatar
    PeteMoran

    Sales are ~8k/pm, they need 10k. Ergo, GM are losing money on each one, and that’s before the “New Model” sheen wears very thin in a month or two.

    It will be another clown car causality.

  • avatar
    PeteMoran

    With regards the Mustang, I believe it’s true that it’s mostly a major refresh rather than completely new? If that’s the case, Ford’s timing is perfect. Leverage/amortize previous investment while sales tick over in a weak market.

    GM timing, as usual, is awful.

  • avatar
    Slare

    The V8 versions are always the ones argued about but the V6 sales are the ones that matter.

    The silver lining in all of this is that if the sales do tank… incentived V6 cars are going to be one hell of a nice deal. My quick investigation shows decent V6 configurations in the ~25k MSRP range. Plop some supplier discount and rebate money on the table and you’re talking <20k. Becomes mighty attractive in that light.

    And while I agree that a nice interior isn’t #1 priority for a Camaro, there is just really no excuse not to have a decent one these days. Look at what GM can put in a Malibu. Look at the updated Mustang. I could understand it in the days of GM interiors just being garbage across the whole lineup, but they’ve now proved they have it in them to make at least a competitive interior. This car deserved that.

  • avatar
    commando1

    LS3 Vette owners are now pissed that they now have a Camaro engine that will be driven by balding former mulletheads.

  • avatar

    onerareviper : Yes, it will be a hit for GM. Of course how you define ‘hit’ is the question. After the abysmal sales of the previous generation, I believe this model will set sales records (for the Camaro). Will it sell as many as the Mustang? Probably not… But did it ever? I don’t think it has to achieve that goal to be considered ‘a hit’.

    Breaking records? I’d be surprised/faint if the Camaro5 breaks the sales records of the late 70s models. And that’s not a Camaro thing, damn near every American icon had its sales heyday back then.

    You’re forgetting one thing: the market has splintered since the Camaro’s spiritual and/or sales heyday. You are completely forgetting imports that fit in this price point…and those that once drove a Camaro now lust for a bi-turbo 335i and probably won’t look back.

    ——————–
    Here’s what makes me say ‘WTF’ when I read your review + many comments posted. ‘You people – ;)’ JUST DON’T GET IT! Let me explain… You (and others) speak of things like ‘touchable’ surfaces. Or perfectly aligned sculpted body panels. Or ‘Lexus-like’ ride quality. Or nimble performance. Refinement. etc… WTF!!!!! These are things YOU PEOPLE demand, not the typical Camaro buyer.

    Exactly. In order for the Camaro to not be a one-hit wonder, it needs a non-crappy interior.

    We learned this from the demise of the F-body, power doesn’t sell. You really need to check the writing on the wall.

    Just watch over the next 6-12 months. Sales will drop because “US GUYS” demand a better quality product at that price point. Even the base model’s price point.

    ——————–
    shaker: Also seems like there’s an undercurrent of derision for “Government Motors” in the review, which is not judging the car on its own merits.

    I never considered that my intro/conclusion paragraphs would take away from the analysis of the car’s merits, but I see your point.

    But, but, but, the Camaro has so much corporate pride and hope pinned on it…talking about the old and new GM seemed like the only way to properly introduce this review.

  • avatar

    I’ve driven the V6, but haven’t yet written it up. Good power, though not enough low-end torque to rotate the rear end the way the V8 can. Could use a better soundtrack. A DOHC V6 has the potential to sound great.

    Someone mentioned the discrepancy between this review and those for the Pontiac G8. Well, expectations are different for a sports coupe than for a sedan. The more enclosed cockpit of the Camaro also affects perceptions of the car’s handling. Same thing happened with the Mercury Cougar vs. the Ford Contour.

    TrueDelta would like to have quick reliability stats for the Camaro. Just a matter of getting enough owners involved.

    http://www.truedelta.com/reliability.php

  • avatar
    ambulancechaser

    $57k for an SS Camaro?!

    Some quick Autotrader searches:

    2007 Mustang GT Calispecial w/SC1 Procharger. 27,888km. $35k

    2003 SVT Cobra 10th Anni. 575HP w/Ford racing whipplecharger. 55,000 Km. $35k

    2007 Shelby, 2,000km. $39k.

    2007 Roush Stage 3 427R Supercharged. 18,500kms. $39,5k.

    2007 Shelby GT 500. 50kms! $45,9k

    2007 Audi RS4, 27,000kms. $59k

    1993 Acura NSX, 58,000kms. $45k

    2006 BMW M3, 23,233kms. $52,9k

    2004 Viper SRT-10, 43,600kms. $54,5k.

    2000 Lotus Esprit, 25,000kms. $50k.

    One could go on for days…

  • avatar
    tigeraid

    You know you have to wonder if Car and Driver isn’t on to something with the “Gotta Have It” rating then?

    This review tears the car to shreds as if it’s SUPPOSED to be competing with a BMW M3 or an Audi S4 or a Nissan Skyline or whatever.

    I’ve driven the car too–absolutely loved every second of it, creaks and rattles and all. Felt exactly like a Camaro should–sitting too low, poor visibility, lots of grip but at the same time kind of vague in feeling, and assloads of power.

    I saw every flaw Sajeev mentioned… And still loved it and thought it was exactly what it should be. If the car were $50,0000+? Then I’d be pretty pissed. But it is what the Camaro always has been–supercar performance for Honda Civic prices. It’s a “gotta have it” car, and no, not just for “old guys reliving the muscle car days.” I’m 28 and I love it.

  • avatar

    One more point: the people who say the Camaro is okay with a crap interior wouldn’t be upset if it had the same stuff as a Honda Accord.

    More to the point, you’d actually see more import buyers coming to the showrooms if that happened. Even more to the point, watch the sales taper off as initial demand goes away and the supply gets bloated because the product is as single-minded as the stereotypical Camaro driver we all like to make fun of. (or pretend to be at times)

  • avatar
    tigeraid

    Sajeev Mehta :
    August 7th, 2009 at 9:05 am

    Exactly. In order for the Camaro to not be a one-hit wonder, it needs a non-crappy interior.

    We learned this from the demise of the F-body, power doesn’t sell. You really need to check the writing on the wall.

    Just watch over the next 6-12 months. Sales will drop because “US GUYS” demand a better quality product at that price point. Even the base model’s price point

    Which argument do “you people” (sorry, he said it, lol!) want to stick with?

    Either a car like this should be all things to all people and appeal to everyone…

    Or companies like BMW and Volkswagen have major problems with trying to be all things to all people.

    Hasn’t TTAC, in the past, railed against companies for building cars that break out of the “brand identity” and not having a clear direction?

    I happen to think that’s why Toyota has been so successful–building boring-ass, reliable appliances for people who treat cars like appliances. BMW used to be the envy of the world–until they broke out of their brand identity and started building overly-gadgeted, overweight, overcomplicated disasters. Or Mercedes, for trying to move downmarket.

    Chevy has always been the brand for “affordable, everyman performance”. And the Camaro is still that.

    Now, if Buick or Cadillac made a version of the Camaro, stickered it at $58,000 and it was exactly the same as the Chevy, then you would have a problem.

  • avatar

    tigeraid: making a better product naturally draws more people into the fold. I’m not asking the Camaro to get a bi-turbo V6, AWD, and some goofy i-Drive joystick on the console. I just want modern levels of quality inside (that was always a problem with the old one) and a tighter handling (just like the old one).

    Is that really too much to ask for? Seriously?

    Don’t confuse my continuous improvement (something GM rarely gets, Corvettes aside) with watering down your brand/model.

  • avatar
    Fromes

    I almost bought a camaro SS, but when I went to the dealer the price on the car was 35k..the price on the 2004 C5z06 sitting next to it with 450 miles on the odo? 37k, you can guess which one I took….

  • avatar
    LennyZ

    Exterior needs some polishing but is a decent beginning. Interior is butt ugly. Retro looking since it recalls the crappy 1970′s interiors. Stick shift is nice. Keep that and dump the rest. Whoever designed that interior seriously needs to get out and look at cars built in this century. The pedals look like surplus from 1962. Interior, and quality problems, would keep me away from this car.

  • avatar
    mikey

    Great review Sajeev…After all this is the TRUTH about cars, and your review tells it like it is.

    Yeah the interior is so so. As others have pointed out, who gives a f—?

    The Camaro looks great,and goes like sh–. My 4th
    gen ragtop is a rattle trap with a cheap lousy fitting,mouse fur interior,and I love it.

    To each his own,beauty in the eye of the beholder
    and all that other sh– eh?

    @Detroit Todd and Onerareviper….well said!

    Oh yeah..Did I mention the Camaro plant has orders and OT till Xmas, and first time quality is at a high point. Just saying.

  • avatar
    SupaMan

    Great review Sajeev…always enjoy your style of writing.

    Praises aside, there’s nothing wrong with wanting a bit more practicality and quality from the Camaro. However, I doubt that people who buy this car really care about such “nits”. As far as they’re concerned, once it goes like hell, stops on a dime, corners with some amount of stiffness (unlike the Challenger) and looks like sex on wheels, it’s good enough for them.

    I really do like this car and if it were my money, I’d buy it (as a single guy). But if you want practicality in a good looking package, there’s a Dodge dealership just down the road…

  • avatar

    I absolutely love the exterior. I have ZERO complaints there, but I’m not that big of a fan of the retro interior, nor the materials there. That said, it’s still a lot better than the last generation Camaro interior. The trunk is an absolute joke considering the physical size of the car, and the interior is too cramped even without the sunroof. Of course, I also don’t fit in the Mustang, so no winners either way.

  • avatar
    KnightRT

    The G8 platform was modified significantly for this car. The Camaro does not use the G8′s front suspension. Every review that has compared the SS and the GXP has found the latter to have objectively better handling and steering feel.

    Because I’ve wanted a coupe version of the GXP since that car was announced, I was interested in the Camaro. That interest ended after I sat in one at a car show. The interior is garbage and the sightlines are awful. The 2009 Mustang was significantly better in both areas, and I’ve heard the 2010 version is further improved. I’ve no idea who the typical Camaro buyer was in 1968 and I don’t care. I won’t buy a car I can’t park without a spotter.

    On the show car, and in every subsequent picture I’ve seen of the Camaro in darker colors, there’s a noticeable color mismatch between the front fascia and the side panels. This is typical:

    http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/03/046_2010camaro_fd.jpg

    People who will buy this car are those willing to overlook significant practical compromises for the sake of appearance. These buyers can’t sustain a model run of a high-volume car. As with Sajeev, I expect this version to drop off dramatically in sales within a year.

  • avatar
    Steven02

    I don’t think you can complain about the exterior. GM was basically told by fans to make it look exactly like the concept. There were a few minor changes, but they are exactly that minor. Exterior looks great. While the retro interior isn’t my thing, the car’s interior isn’t that bad at all.

    And while it does weigh more than previous generations, it doesn’t handle nearly as bad as you say. It will be on SCCA tracks and it will win.

    Finally, why do people say old GM vs new GM? Like a car that was designed before the bankruptcy is some how going to miraculously change after bankruptcy. It isn’t like the new Equinox, which has been getting great reviews with the 2.4L DI is a product of this so called new GM.

  • avatar
    Campisi

    I don’t understand the hatred of the interior. I sat in one of these at the dealer (just before they took it away to clean it up for the guy who bought it) and thought it was pretty good. The steering wheel felt good, the shifter knob fell directly to hand, and the buttons and controls functioned with decent aplomb. The materials aren’t cribbed from Rolls-Royce, but then again it isn’t a Rolls-Royce.

    I’d like to know what vehicles the reviewers that harp on about interior quality are coming out of when they review stuff like this. I always envision that old story about the princess that would complain – loudly – about the pea she could feel through ten layers of goosedown pillows. There comes a point wherein you’re complaining about nothing.

  • avatar

    Low 13s? CRAP! The old 4th gen would run a high 12.

    http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/cretinx/Copyof01Bullitt_Article2c.jpg

    This new car is too big and fat, just like GM itself.

  • avatar

    Campisi : The materials aren’t cribbed from Rolls-Royce, but then again it isn’t a Rolls-Royce.

    Here, let me fix that for you: The materials aren’t cribbed from Honda, but then again it isn’t a Honda.

  • avatar
    SV

    I sat in a Camaro at the car show way back in January. Interior materials were very dissapointing, scratchy cheap greyness all around that really undid the otherwise interesting design. At the time I put that down to it being a preproduction model, but based on what I’ve read here and elsewhere that doesn’t seem to be the case.

    I think, overall, I’d take the new Mustang over this if it had the 3.5L EcoBoost. Or even with the 3.7L V6 or 5.0L V8, both of which are rumored to be available this fall or so.

  • avatar
    BuzzDog

    The best result of the new Camaro’s (re)introduction is that it may have spurred Ford to make some very nice improvements to the Mustang. In that respect, market competition can have a positive effect on products offered to the consumer.

  • avatar
    ChevroletGuy

    Go GM! Toyota sucks.

  • avatar
    NickR

    How tall can you be and still fit comfortably inside?

  • avatar
    Aqua225

    Love it. Pending a test drive to make sure I like the way it feels, I’ll have one in September 2010.

    I do not have a mullet, never considered getting one. I like straight line road rockets that you don’t have to pound to pieces to get power out of. That 6.2L is all me :)

    Hey Stunned_BB, with the WRX, if you drop that much extra cash into a SS Camaro, the Camaro will be back on top of the Subie again, even with all the severe wheel slip that much horsepower would entail. Moded cars don’t impress me. It’s what you can do under warranty with no mods. That’s the ticket.

    When it’s time to retire the car, then you mod it. I’d never trust a car for anything other than corner store or saturday night drag racing if it has mods. NEVER. I’ve seen these import screamer cars… they are all in the Advance store the next morning trying to get the Advance mechanic to do a code scan on it for all the lights the lit up the night before by forcing extra boost and nitrous through them like they were race car engines. Half come into the parking lot and won’t even idle correctly.

    Secondly, I’d never buy a used WRX. Because of the mod crowd, a lot of mod folks are buying them, flashing STi setting into them, and turning up the power, way up — without the bigger intercooler and turbo that would keep the exhaust temps in check. They wail on’em for a few thousand, flash them back, and put them on the used market. Usually with border line valve and block thermal damage.

  • avatar
    shaker

    KixStart “Are you getting regular excercise? Yoga seems surprisingly beneficial to me. Try a glucosamine/chondritin supplement. And maybe some calcium.”

    Thanks… maybe I’ll take that advice ;-)

    Sajeev: “I never considered that my intro/conclusion paragraphs would take away from the analysis of the car’s merits, but I see your point.”

    Well, there are people that really want to hate this car because they disagree with the bailout – your opening comments will bring these commentators like bears to honey (Thanks for answering).

    It seems that the constant berating of the interior seems to ignore the sophistication of the powertrain and suspension at this price point – I believe a “base model” V6 can be had for 23k and a V8 for 28k… that’s a high “fun factor” for the dollars spent.

  • avatar
    KixStart

    shaker,

    Just one more thing, yoga classes are mostly full of women. :-)

  • avatar

    shaker : Well, there are people that really want to hate this car because they disagree with the bailout – your opening comments will bring these commentators like bears to honey (Thanks for answering).

    And that’s a good point. Granted GM is a hot button topic, but the Hyundai Genesis review was the same thing, and the haters didn’t show in mass quantities.

    I guess it’s no big deal when you have something good to say about a company from a country far away, but when a US company teases us for 3+ years, goes into bankruptcy, golden parachutes, accounting schemes, etc. and the car isn’t all its cracked up to be…

  • avatar
    joe_thousandaire

    Can I suggest a six-month ban on the use of the term “soft-touch plastics”? Perhaps that would provide an environment where this sites mostly excellent staff could learn to write about some aspect of a car that the readers actually give a crap about. What about the headliner material? I’ve been just dying to know what that feels like in the new Camaro.

  • avatar

    joe_thousandaire : …staff could learn to write about some aspect of a car that the readers actually give a crap about.

    Good point. I did spend most of the review’s 800 words on the crap plastics. That’s my bad.

    But since you mentioned it, like most new GMs, the headliner has a nice texture. I think more people should know just how nice GM headliners are these days. Seriously.

  • avatar
    Campisi

    Here, let me fix that for you: The materials aren’t cribbed from Honda, but then again it isn’t a Honda.

    The Rolls-Royce comment seemed to distract you; the point was that the interior of the new Camaro is more than adequate for the mission of the car. When Honda puts a V8 into a rear-wheel-drive 2+2 pony car, we’ll see what the Camaro is apparently missing.

  • avatar
    KnightRT

    > the point was that the interior of the new Camaro is more than adequate for the mission of the car.

    The 370Z and the Mustang have significantly more attractive interiors. The bar is not where it was ten, or even five years ago. This ‘good enough’ mentality and corresponding inattention to detail was a horrible virus at old GM. If the next revision of this car isn’t a class above in perceived quality, I fear for new GM.

  • avatar

    KnightRT : The 370Z and the Mustang have significantly more attractive interiors.

    Thanks, Knight RT. And again, if the Camaro had a 370Z/Mustang/Genesis/Scion tC worthy interior, the faithful wouldn’t hate it for being too nice for their mullets (sorry, shouldn’t go there) and it would bring more people into the fold.

    And with all this, 6-12 months from now, the sales rush/head turning will fade significantly. Just like the 4th gen Camaro. Just a prediction, of course.

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    The Rolls-Royce comment seemed to distract you; the point was that the interior of the new Camaro is more than adequate for the mission of the car. When Honda puts a V8 into a rear-wheel-drive 2+2 pony car, we’ll see what the Camaro is apparently missing.…

    Actually, it’s not. The exterior is fine, as is the drivetrain (broken driveshafts excepted). But that interior fails stylistically first and materially second. Why strive for just “ok” anyway? GM should have tried to do better than that huge grey wall of blah that the passenger has to stare at. I actually like this car, and wanted to like it enough to consider it. But unlike a horrid exterior (looking at you Acura TL) that you see just from the front, an unattractive interior is yours to stare at whenever you use the car.

  • avatar
    Campisi

    KnightRT : The 370Z and the Mustang have significantly more attractive interiors.

    I just don’t see it. When I compare the three, the Camaro interior is at the very least equal to (and in my opinion more attractive than) the proffered alternatives.

    For comparison, the Camaro’s interior:

    http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/W/N/1/gm_10camaro_interior.jpg

    The Mustang’s interior:

    http://www.cargurus.com/images/2008/05/18/18/37/pic-59059.jpeg

    The 370Z’s interior:

    http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/I/a/1/ag_09370z_intright.jpg

    Saying which one is better than the other two is of course a subjective measure, but I fail to see how the Camaro interior is objectively worse (cosmetically and ergonomically) than the other two by a significant margin. How the materials feel cannot be conveyed by simply looking at an image, but after sitting in the three cars I personally observed nothing to significantly lower the Camaro’s interior quality in comparison to the other two.

    And again, if the Camaro had a 370Z/Mustang/Genesis/Scion tC worthy interior, the faithful wouldn’t hate it for being too nice for their mullets (sorry, shouldn’t go there) and it would bring more people into the fold.

    Isn’t that true of all vehicles, though? What mass-market car on sale today wouldn’t benefit from a better interior?

  • avatar
    KnightRT

    In a soft-light press picture, it looks fine. In the flesh, the silver trim looks as if it were painted on with sharpie and might rub off on your fingers. This is closer to the true appearance, though still flattering:

    http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/L/k/1/ag_10camaro_intlttan.jpg

    I felt the stereo faceplate was particularly egregious. The unit also appears non-standard, so it may not be replaceable.

    The aluminum trim on the Mustang makes a better impression, and they’ve slathered most of the interior with soft-touch material. More, even, than the 370Z, though some may prefer that car’s more cockpit-like approach.

  • avatar

    Campisi : Isn’t that true of all vehicles, though? What mass-market car on sale today wouldn’t benefit from a better interior?

    In a world where cost is no object, sure.

    In the real world, the Camaro has a host of competitors with nicer interiors. Those competitors haul ass pretty well too, lest we forget. So that makes the Camaro the odd man out,even compared to the Dodge Challenger’s sad interior.

    GM’s sports car is the weakest link, so GM is being singled out for needing to change.

  • avatar
    NickR

    What the hell are those gauges in front of the shifter? It was a lousy idea on my vintage Charger. 40 years didn’t make it a better idea.

    Yikes, that radio. Last time I saw something like that someone was walkin down the beach with it on their shoulder, playing MC Hammer.

  • avatar
    onerareviper

    Campisi,

    Agree 100%. IMHO, very few cars have an interior worth talking about. Or spending extra coin to purchase. Audi, Lexus, and a few other expensive makes come to mind. And the cost reflects this… Maybe 20% of all models. When you sit in those cars, you immediately respect the quality. You can see/feel a MAJOR difference between those and the bucket your driving on your daily commute. Then you have 70% which are so-so. The differences between interior quality/material is very small, so it comes down to personal preference. I’d put most American makes in this group, along with most Japanese and some less expensive Germans (under 30K). Then there’s the hideous. Suzuki, I’m looking at you. Add in the entry level (cheapest) Kia’s/Hyundai’s/GM’s (Aveo) and you get your final 10%. When you sit in these cars, you question whether the low-price is enough to tolerate the lego-interior. Of course my percentages may be off a point or two, but I sit in all makes every year at the NAIAS. And judging the vast majority (that 70%) is like splitting hairs.

  • avatar
    onerareviper

    Sajeev,

    Maybe I’m forgetting some makes, but please enlighten me on the ‘competitors’. You have a naturally aspirated direct injection V6 that makes 304HP (14 second 1/4 mile), that gets decent gas mileage (17 city 29 hwy), in a RWD platform that handles better than most in that price range, available in a stick shift, that has a back seat (although not much), that actually doesn’t look like every other car on the road. For an MSPR of $23,000. Again, $23,000!!! That is an extremely enticing proposition, and few (if any) cars can stake claim. Toss in a 426HP V8 monster (running high 12′s in 1/4) and the MSRP is $31,000. Again, $31,000!!! If these cars were priced 7-10 grand higher, I could see your logic of ‘gotta be the first to have one’ speculation. But I feel at these prices, sales will remain strong for years to come. Especially once ‘paying’ MSRP wears off. Invoice is a grand or two less. GM’s biggest mistake would be jacking up the prices due to first year sales. If they do that, all bets are off…

    BTW – On another forum I post a GM dealer commented about the Camaro. He said,

    Still selling Camaros at MSRP & can’t get enough of them, we are sold out for all of next year with a 10-12 month wait to order !!!

    Who knows if all dealers are experiencing this, as only time will tell…. Not to mention it is a ‘Dealer’, so take the comments with a grain of salt. That being said, the Camaro outsold the Mustang two months straight. Of course this would be expected due to pent-up demand. But a good sign none-the-less.

  • avatar
    doctorv8

    onerareviper,

    I am much more of a fan of the new Camaro than Sajeev, however your HP/$ argument was equally (if not even more) true of the new 1993 Camaro, with its LT1/6 speed Corvette drivetrain at just over half the price of a Vette. Sales were initially strong then, but we all know what ensued. Granted, the Mustang was a lame duck that year, and heavily revised for 1994…but the economy was much stronger.

    I like the refined 5th gen car tremendously, but even I question its viability. Bottom line….GM is about 4 years too late to market on this one. Sigh.

  • avatar

    onerareviper : Judging (which I shouldn’t do) by your name and your comments, you seem to think horsepower will save the Camaro from the same death the F-body experienced. If so, sorry, it won’t work that way. The muscle car market isn’t enough to support the Camaro like it did in the good old days, and everything from the failure of the GTO, the last Camaro, GM’s negative press from idiotic management moves and the current problems with the new Camaro…all will spell trouble once the initial demand goes away.

    And one dealer’s current happiness proves both of our points: I say it won’t last, no matter how happy dealers are right now. I have given specific–and actionable–reasons why. The product isn’t that good.

    If you can’t see the Mustang, Mustang GT, Nissan 370, Mazda RX-8 (kinda silly, but hey, it’s there), Pontiac G8, Infiniti G37 and even guys chipping CPO 335is as a serious threat to the Camaro, there’s no hope for us seeing eye-to-eye. All of those models have loyal buyers with plenty of money, and they are pretty loyal to their brand. And most of them weren’t even around when the 4th gen died.

    Time will tell. But GM’s pathetic market share and recent precedent is not on your side.

  • avatar
    onerareviper

    Doctor V8 + Sajeev,

    Here’s your fatal error. Comparing the Gen 4 to the Gen 5 Camaro. Why? Because one looks like dog sh*t, and one looks incredible. People only bought the Gen 4 due to HP-per-dollar, ‘despite’ looks. Whereas people are buying the Gen 5 ‘due’ to its looks. The ‘looks’ market is much larger than the ‘HP’ market, IMHO. Of course it doesn’t hurt that the HP-per-dollar of the current model is also strong.

    Sajeev,

    CPO 335i chipped – So you want to compare a ‘used’ modified (there goes your warranty) car to a new ride? Even you have to admit this is a ‘ricer’ argument. Next.

    Pontiac G8 – Is this even going to be made anymore? Next.

    Mazda RX8 – Great car, but TOTALLY different buyer. People are not cross-shopping these cars. Plus it starts at $27,000 (MSRP), gets horrible fuel economy, and is unreliable. Again, great car, but only true ‘sports car’ enthusiasts are willing to even consider this car + using a quart of oil every month + appreciate its strengths. It’s worth it for them, but not the average buyer. Next.

    Infinity G37 – Coupe starts at $37,000 MSRP. Totally different price bracket compared to the V6 Camaro. And I don’t think the V8 Camaro is cross-shopped with this car, not to mention $6,000 more for G37. V6 Camaro is $14,000 less. Next.

    Nissan 370 – OK. I’ll give you this one. Price point is between V6/V8, although no back seat. Unique looks + great performance at an affordable price. You got me here. Check.

    Mustang – Of course, but we knew this. That being said, comparable performance cost you a good bit more. Check.

    * Please understand, I’m not claiming the new Camaro is the greatest thing since sliced bread. But I do believe there is a sufficient market for this car with very little competition. Again, only time will tell. We’ll have to revisit this post in a few years ;)

  • avatar
    doctorv8

    Dog sh*t? Maybe in retrospect, but in 1993 the new LT1 powered Z28 was a decent looking ride. That 90s era fast windhield and those huge overhangs didn’t age well, granted, but I question whether the 2010 car is going to look all that great in 2015 or 2020 either. The Camaro5 is a pretty sharp car, IMO, but it ain’t a 1970.5 looker, right Mr. Niedermeyer? ;-)

  • avatar
    mistrernee

    I might be alone here, but I prefer the looks of the 4th generation Camaro compared to the 5th.

    I own one, but still. I like the low fastback look.

    I miss 90′s styling in general though. Cars made in the 00′s are gaudy in comparison with few exceptions.

  • avatar
    onerareviper

    doctorv8,

    Agreed, dog sh*t is a bit strong. It was ‘decent’ at introduction, and didn’t age well. But a muscle car that looks ‘decent’ (at intro) is doomed for failure or quick redesign. Looking bad-a*s is a requirement. And the Camaro5 has this in spades. Other than the first generation, I believe this car blows away 2 thru 4. Especially with some of the paint schemes possible on the Camaro5. You be the judge…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camaro#First_generation

  • avatar

    onerareviper,

    Sorry, the 4th gen was downright beautiful compared to the 5th. But that’s personal preference, the new Camaro is perfect for CUV lovers who demand even less functionality from their tall rides. (sorry, couldn’t resist)

    I understand why you give (valid) reasons why people won’t cross shop those cars to the Camaro, but that’s kinda my point:

    1. The market is heavily segmented.
    2. The segments have loyal buyers who hate GM for valid and invalid reasons.
    2.5. Thanks to monthly payments and (easy?) zero percent credit offers every now and then, these brand loyalists can spend more for a G37, a 370Z, 335i and not give two sh–s about GM’s value proposition.
    3. Performance car buyers have a choice. More so than any other time in the Camaro’s history.
    4. Horsepower, spongy handling and crap interiors won’t set this market on fire. The buyer has plenty around them to chose from.
    5. There are so many people across this country who didn’t grow up with V8 power, and they couldn’t care about it. Unless “it” handles like a 370Z.

    Let’s watch the sales figures for the next 12 months, and see who has to eat their hat.

  • avatar

    Oh, and we forgot the Genesis Coupe. Which I drove (V6 track pack) and it was an absolute hoot to drive. Touchy feely stuff was decent, too. Too bad the 4.6L isn’t an option…might actually give pause to would-be Camaro SS owners. (who like handling as much as horsepower)

  • avatar
    ajla

    @Sajeev:

    Sorry, the 4th gen was downright beautiful compared to the 5th. But that’s personal preference, the new Camaro is perfect for CUV lovers who demand even less functionality from their tall rides. (sorry, couldn’t resist)

    You’ve got it all wrong. The 5th Gen is the best Camaro ever because it no longer has a superior Pontiac counterpart making it look average. (sorry, I couldn’t resist either)
    ___

    Horsepower, spongy handling and crap interiors won’t set this market on fire

    What do you think causes the “spongy” handling? Is it just a weight issue or is it sprung badly? Do you think the giant 21-inch wheels hurt it?
    ______
    There are so many people across this country who didn’t grow up with V8 power, and they couldn’t care about it. Unless “it” handles like a 370Z.

    That’s really kind of shame.

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    Sajeev, to be fair, you can’t really say that the Genesis Coupe has a quality interior, at least not in comparison to the Genesis Sedan. The price differential between the two had to be made up somewhere, and it came right out of the interior. Is it better than the Camaro’s? Well, yeah, but that really is not saying much. Also, how are Coupe sales numbers? I have heard rumors that they are not very good, although I can’t quote that as fact.

  • avatar
    ajla

    Oh, and we forgot the Genesis Coupe. Which I drove (V6 track pack) and it was an absolute hoot to drive.

    Really? The transmission didn’t bother you too much?

  • avatar

    ajla : What do you think causes the “spongy” handling? Is it just a weight issue or is it sprung badly? Do you think the giant 21-inch wheels hurt it?

    It’s the springs or dampeners. Or both. The car is just plain soft, and IIRC, other reviewers say its softer than the G8 GXP. More ammo for that Firebird comment of yours. :)

    —————————
    golden2husky : Is it better than the Camaro’s? Well, yeah, but that really is not saying much. Also, how are Coupe sales numbers? I have heard rumors that they are not very good, although I can’t quote that as fact.

    The Genesis coupe’s interior isn’t Accord worthy, but its not that far off. Seriously. And is that really too much to ask at this price point?

    I’ve heard rumors that production is artificially limited, just like the sedan. If so, Hyundai knows they have to take baby steps to become a power player in this field.

    —————————
    ajla : Really? The transmission didn’t bother you too much?

    Not really, but I know it’s no Civic. Again, I like crude stuff in muscle cars. Its no notchier than a Borg Warner T-45 in a Mustang or a T-56 in a 4th Gen Camaro. Its just dying for a V8.

  • avatar
    onerareviper

    Sajeev,

    It’s obvious our taste our completely different when you make comments like, “Sorry, the 4th gen was downright beautiful compared to the 5th.”. I feel the total opposite. And to be frank, I believe the vast majority of car nuts are siding with me…. Why? The Camaro was one (if not the) biggest attraction at NAIAS from 2006 forward. That car drew crowds like bees to honey for the past 4 shows/years. By no means a ‘one hit wonder’ on the show floor. I was an eye witness to the ohhhhs and ahhhhs year after year. The Gen 4 never elicited this reaction. Not even close. It was also a huge hit at SEMA with the different paint schemes/mods. Not to mention the car being used in several movies (no big deal, but doesn’t hurt sales). People are gawking over this car like a Gen 4 could only dreamed of…. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think you need glasses ;)

    In closing, I’ll be happy to watch sales for the next 12 months and ‘eat my John Deer camo hat’ if I must. I’ve done it before, and it’s not too bad. Taste like chicken. Which taste like rattlesnake. You know how us ‘rednecks’ roll.

  • avatar

    onerareviper : Yeah, I saw the ooohs and ahhhs too, I was there…big deal. Why? The 5th Gen has been marketed far better than the 4th, and spent far more time on a turntable with perfect lights and hot blondes strutting around it. The 4th wasn’t a concept car for years, it hit the ground and met with GM’s typical marketing neglect sooner than later. It’s pretty much inevitable, nothing’s gonna change this time ’round.

    Just read C/D’s comparo of the Genesis V6 and the Camaro LT: nice to see the Camaro won by winning the “gotta have it” quotient. Just like the test drives proved to me, the Genesis absolutely spanked the V6 Camaro in every dynamic event.

    And with that, my Houston Astros hat tastes like rabbit. Which tastes like Chicken. Not that I expect to be eating it, but yum.

  • avatar
    ajla

    @ sajeev:

    Not really, but I know it’s no Civic. Again, I like crude stuff in muscle cars. Its no notchier than a Borg Warner T-45 in a Mustang or a T-56 in a 4th Gen Camaro. Its just dying for a V8.

    I should clarify my gripe with the Gen. Coupe. I thought the shift action itself was fine, but the tach seemed to only give vague representation of the actual engine speed which I found annoying.

    However, the car also had a massive rev hang problem. It was to the point that I’d be on the brakes, but the motor would still be cooking. I was quite alarmed by this characteristic, and owner forums confirm it’s a common problem for the car. The salesmen on my test drive told me “It’s for fuel economy, the throttle is gradual and doesn’t close right away”. Seemed dangerous to me.

    Here’s a youtube video of what I’m talking about: Genesis Coupe rev hang.

  • avatar

    Hmm, I didn’t notice either of those problems on my (V6) test drive, but then again, it was a short test drive. (review NOT forthcoming)

  • avatar
    JimiMack

    I don’t know why anyone would want to buy a Mustang. Myself, I like to think I’m a bit different from others and even in the choice of the cars I drive.

    It seems to me that every 5th car on the road is a Mustang of some sort, mostly driven by women (ranging in age from 16 to 75) who purchase the “Secretary Special” with the 6cyl engine. I also notice quite a few people, male and female, who drive these 6 cylinder cars as if they were racing from one stop light to the next.

    To each their own. Some folks here say that the new Camaro is just another crappy American car and they won’t last. Come on. It’s people who say this and don’t support our own country’s products that is ruining America. Who wants to buy a dull grey Audi or clunky looking champagne colored Mercedes and drive it around for 5 years anyway? Not me. I’ll trade my American car in every few years for a new American car. The difference is that I’ll take car of it. Maintaining it mechanically and cosmetically and it’ll run and look just as good as when I bought it. I’m 50 years old and have been doing this for over 25 years now. Yes I’ve had my problems, but my wife did too with her Toyota Camry and a Honda Accord…now she drives American too.

    I’ve taken a test drive in a Camaro, one of the LS3 models and wasn’t really impressed. The dash is nice and looking at the front end straight-on is awesome. The back of the vehicle, with it’s weird curves really doesn’t do anything for me. Driving the LS3 with the big HP advantage was nice and powerful but there was something that didn’t feel right. From a quick start the car seemed to have that “Big Car” pull moving it out of a straight acceleration. The 6 Speed transmission was my favorite part of the vehicle. It’s very positive and easy to shift and pass through gears, unlike the 6 Speed in the Challenger SRT which at times is a bit difficult.

    Of these new “Pony” cars, the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger, myself, I like and have purchased the Challenger SRT8. Why…when it all boils down, it’s really a matter of what appeals to you. If a Volkswagen Beetle put out 450HP, I still wouldn’t buy it. I really like the styling on the Challenger, compared to the non-retro look on the Camaro. Plus, the Challenger offers the HEMI engine whic is powerful and sounds really awesome. Maybe not the fastest off the line, but get her over 3000RPM and listen to her wake up and roar. Not only does everyone see me coming they also hear me.

    Like I said at the beginning of this post, everywhere you turn you see a Mustang. Well, give another year or 2 and we’re going to see a myriad of Camaros too. Seems like every woman that I’ve talked to about cars, likes and wants a new Camaro. Me, I’ll stick with what I truly love…the body style, engine performance and scarcity of them on the road. And when it comes to people in these reviews saying that they can tune up a BMW or Mercedes, remember that most of us love these cars and just want to drive a muscle car, not some steroid-pumped-up German car. Besides isn’t the Speed Limit still 55 and 65, and on most city streets, 35 to 35. No need to be driving 85 or 95MPH anyways. Just buy a car that you will enjoy and fits your personality. They say that your car is a reflection of yourself, so buy what you like and take car of it.

  • avatar
    justin.82

    I saw this at the 2009 North American Auto Show and it looked liked it was cheaply manufactered garbage. The author is right Camaro’s have always been cheap and GM will never change! I thought maybe they would have changed the production model from the one at the auto show, nope it’s the same garbage dumpster on wheels. No wonder I’ve only seen 2 on the road! It won’t last or keep up with the Mustang production or the Challenger which I don’t think will be in production long either. The Challenger is a hell of a car inside and out. I think Chrysler is going to produce is for a while then stop, it keeps the cars worth more but it will still last longer then the Camaro. GM will never learn!

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    I read that “rev hang” is designed into the fuel control strategy to prevent a spike of NOx that is created upon a rapid closing of the “throttle”…Rev hang sucks…people have become accustomed to it, but not at this level…

    BTW, why would Hyundai hold back production purposely? Ok, if needed to keep quality up, but otherwise why not fill the need if it exists?

  • avatar

    golden2husky : BTW, why would Hyundai hold back production purposely? Ok, if needed to keep quality up, but otherwise why not fill the need if it exists?

    Because (with the sedan) the need for a $43,000 Hyundai doesn’t exist. It has to be made, and you can’t make that happen by cramming product down dealers and unreceptive customers.

    Hyundai is trying the classic “Pull Strategy” in this market. Considering the merits (of the sedan and coupe) it might actually work.

  • avatar
    Cyrenn

    :) Man do I love my Rally Yellow SS2 with Black Rally Stripes: ) Oh yea I ordered my Autobot emblems and slapped them on long before Chevy announced the Transformers edition. Call me a geek if you want, but I’m part of Generation X so I don’t mine the inner child in me with the autobot emblems:)

    But anyways I’ll get to the point, man its a sweet ride, it just glides, feels like your floating on air when driving it: )

    Oh how I love cruising by Mustangs, Challengers, Chargers, they just look and are like WTF. I’m from Vegas, Valet at any Major Hotel and Casino on the Vegas strip park my Camaro and velvet it off in the front just so people can take pictures of it: )I’ve parked my car in front of that rental highend sports car shop people flock to that area to take pictures of souped up Mustangs, Porches, Corvette’s, Vipers, Bently’s , Lamborghini’s, Ferrari’s etc. But When my Camaro is their it steals the lime light from any other car on the lot: ) I’m sure the nostalgic will eventually fade away but hell I’m going to enjoy ever minute of it : )

    It’s like that Yellow Camaro is a superstar : )of course because of The Movie: ) I drive down the Vegas strip with it, and crowds just flock to it: ) Especially the Kids, I love how the kids get the biggest kick out of it: ) Parents and kids always come up to me and ask if they can take a pictures with the car: ) It’s great to see the kids have fun taking pictures with the car:) Oh ya the women love that Yellow Camaro : ) Yay! For Bumblebee LOL!
    http://www.myspace.com/darkwatermovies

  • avatar
    fli317

    This whole argument about the interior is sort of funny. I agree that it is a lot about nothing. I sat in one at the dealership and the interior was cool. I don’t get the whole cheap comments. But maybe I don’t sit in too many Mercedes’ and BMWs. I do sit in Honda’s and its interior is only marginally better. It would not make me buy that car.

    Sajeev, you are right. It is not a Honda. Nor, should it be. I would not consider buying one if it were a Honda. Honda has rarely, if ever made a car this compelling and exciting.

  • avatar
    fli317

    Sajeev, just a correction. I saw that the Genesis beat the camaro in acceleration but the Camaro spanked the Genesis in breaking and in gas mileage. And, although it is subjective, the Camaro is hugely better looking than the Genesis.

    I agree with one of the previous writers. I think Americans need to wake up and support American car companies. The cars are not that dissimilar. Its a lot about nothing. Wake up everyone!

  • avatar

    fli317 : Sajeev, you are right. It is not a Honda. Nor, should it be. I would not consider buying one if it were a Honda. Honda has rarely, if ever made a car this compelling and exciting.

    So if the Camaro came with an Accord-worthy interior, you wouldn’t buy it?

    Do you NOT want the Camaro to have a broader appeal with loyal import owners? Come on, its not that much to ask for from a company promising to close the perception gap.

    ——————————–
    fli317 : Sajeev, just a correction. I saw that the Genesis beat the camaro in acceleration but the Camaro spanked the Genesis in breaking and in gas mileage.

    Good points. As expected, the Camaro has grandma gearing, hence the fuel economy numbers. I always take braking numbers with a grain of salt (even if the Genesis was better) because press cars often come pre-abused. It’s not a stretch to believe that one press car arrived with slightly glazed brake pads and another did not.

  • avatar
    Logans_Run

    You know, every time I see someone use “compelling and exciting” I immediately think GM employee.

  • avatar
    achevroletman

    Since flaming the Authors is banned, I will not, though I should. Chevy is building the best looking, best quality, and best value vehicles in the world. Our airbags are NOT KILLING people(Honda, Acura are). J.D. Power ranked Malibu Numero uno in Quality for 2008(Honda,Yota, and Hyundai wish their Mid-Size was). Camaro is a breath of fresh air in a smoke filled room of Sports Car wannabes. I drive mine around town and there is a constant whiplash of neck vertebrae as people whirl around as I zoom by, or hold their camera phones out the window to take Pics of what they wish they had. You Rice burner junkies would not know a Mans Man car if it powerslid sideways in front of you.
    Volt is coming Baby @ 230 miles per gallon. Prius—Preesh. If you do not at least shop a Chevrolet lot for your next buy, then you are exactly what the Asians count on, a Brainwashed Yup letting them live on past glory. Awaken yourselves to the fact that GM is on the cutting edge of technology(interesting that the Nissan 370 does not even offer a USB Port). The General is coming back in a BIG WAY.

  • avatar
    Logans_Run

    @achevroletman:

    You forgot “compelling and exciting.” That was me blowing right by you in my Subaru WRX-STI. Give it up, the Camaro died years ago except for the retro crowd.

  • avatar
    KixStart

    Hey, achevroletman,

    People who don’t shop Chevrolet are what certain Asian brands have worked hard to develop:

    Satisfied customers.

  • avatar
    KixStart

    PS: The New Camaro is ugly.

  • avatar

    achevroletman : Camaro is a breath of fresh air in a smoke filled room of Sports Car wannabes.

    Counterpoint: The only wannabes in the smoke-filled Sport Car room are the overweight/overstuffed Camaro and Challenger.

  • avatar
    achevroletman

    Your WRX 0-60time is slower than the SS and your quarter mile as well, and the slalom. The only place the WRX is faster is in your feeble mind.Sajeev,Sajeev,Sajeev, you poor misguided autocrat–Reeks of Haste? The R and D was 5 years, so please.Overweight? SS is a lot lighter than the Challenger-do your research. By the way, most people like to come out of a crash unscathed-hence the 5***** Crash rating for all passengers.
    Your jealousy and envy are duly noted, buy a Camaro and I will wager that by the end of that week even you will have a date.

  • avatar
    KixStart

    The fact that the Challenger is morbidly obese does not mean that Camaro is not overweight.

  • avatar

    achevroletman : Overweight? SS is a lot lighter than the Challenger-do your research.

    I’ll keep that in mind the next time a whale goes toe-to-toe with a hippo. Neither are even close to the Mustang. And while the current Mustang may be one of the larger Pony Cars of all time, it’s still the lightest one today. Which is pretty sad, when you think about it.

    ——————————

    By the way, most people like to come out of a crash unscathed-hence the 5***** Crash rating for all passengers.

    You might wanna check this out. If I was that concerned about safety, I’d get the Challenger and mow down everyone smaller than a Tahoe.

    ——————————–

    Your jealousy and envy are duly noted, buy a Camaro and I will wager that by the end of that week even you will have a date.

    I don’t care much for cars that run 13s in the quarter, styled to pick up baby boomers and ride nice enough to keep their joints from aching. (wink)

  • avatar
    Superdessucke

    Way. Too. Big.

  • avatar
    bugo

    I finally sat in a new Camaro a couple of days ago. There was enough headroom for me to sit up straight, but if I leaned forward a few inches my head hit the roof. And I’m not even that tall (6’2″.) And the visibility to the back was awful. The windows are really nothing more than opera windows. That being said, the car is beautiful and has great performance and is a good value. It’s just a tragedy that the visibility and headroom is so poor. Looks like I’ll have to enjoy the new Camaro from a distance.

  • avatar
    Anon

    Being myself, I think any Camaro after 1982, should have been used for running cocaine, and nothing more. After all, that was their fate, wasn’t it? Although the Iroc-Z was actually said to be a good engine, I’m not sure if I’d have faith in the whole car. From 1970, to 1979, however, was the prime of it’s life. The genes of that decade really show in that front it. Not sure if “bulldog” is an appropriate description.

    To me, the 1969 Camaro, accept for the famed Yenko/SC, isn’t appealing to me. Being that, all GM body styles were the same. Take a look at the Firebird of 1969, it’s just a Camaro with a horizontal split in the tailights, and a snap on “V” to the front grill.

    Needless to say, I wouldn’t buy this car. But if I were to buy a Camaro, I think it’s obvious which decade I would choose. No pony for me, although I am a huge fan of the Dodge Challenger, but not much else from Chrysler.


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