I am the owner of a 2002 Honda Odyssey minivan I bought new in 2002. I previously leased a 1999 Plymouth Grand Voyageur before purchasing the Oddysey. I read all of the so called “Car Experts” various reviews. 7 out of 7 of the major car review sites named the Oddysey the best van. So, following conventional logic and wisdom I purchased the 2002 Oddysey.

What a rolling POS this has been. The electric doors don’t work. The electronics have been a continuous problems (one radio gone out; one heating adjustment that wouldn’t adjust; rear lamps that go out; door ajar lights on when the door isn’t ajar). Oh yes then there is the constant harping about Chrysler product transmissions being unreliable. Well try on the Honda transmission going out at 36,000 miles. The car is noisy, squeaky and the interior feels like a rock.

I think that the Japanese press must own all of the auto publications. I frankly do not see the superiority of the Japanese minivans. For me, I am going back to the Chrysler product whether it is under the Dodge, Chrysler or VW badge. It can’t be any worse than the last 7 years of the rolling repair bill called the Odyssey.

Oh yes, the 3.5 litre engine in the Oddysey is good. Unfortunely everything else around it is a sad joke.

First we went for Mazda 5. Turned out that ‘M5′ is sold out nationwide due to its good gas millage which qualifies it for maximum cash rebate provided by the “clunkers” Fed program.

Then we went to see Routan to our local VW dealership. We test drove the Routan and my wife just love it. Same hour we end up buying the ‘S’ Routan model.

I don’t understand why so many people need so much gadgets included in the final price of their new cars. I believe that any gizmo (like integrated dashboard navigation, leather seats, DVD player, power sliding side doors, etc) is just unnecessary gimmick trick set for you to pay more and inflating the real value of any given car.

People can always buy or add DVD, GPS, heating seat pads/covers, roof racks etc for much less than 15K. Which is equal to the difference between base model and the most pimped trim level. However there are features which are really hard to add (e.g. more leg room, cargo area or car height). These aforementioned ‘extra’ features are commonly hiding potential problems. I don’t like power driven doors or seats just because they have much more ‘week points’ which might be somewhat expensive to fix.

The Routan (even with the 197 HP engine) is still fun to drive because of the good suspension system and the overall SUV kind of feeling on the road. I see multiple Honda, Toyota and other brands mini-vans (even mid-sized SUVs) where the driver seat is positioned much lower/closer to the ground and look just smaller.

I bought 09 Routan S van for under 23.5K with zero down and 0% APR for 72 months or less than 400$/month. Also I got a good insurance rate which saved me some insurance money and since it is a new car it qualifies for Federal tax credit (~1500$ sale tax will be returned to us next tax return period). Also the Routan comes with 3 year free maintenance which additionally save us couple hundreds for regular oil change,tire rotations, air filter etc. The dealership people offered me also free car washes for same period of time.

Overall we are very satisfied by the ratio price/value/room size provided by 2009 VW Routan.
I think this vehicle is the best deal/hot buy on the US minivan market now.

I have owned several Dodge Grand Caravans and each has had multiple transmissions. That alone might be worth a lifetime warranty from Chrysler, but my lifetime or theirs? I haul suitcases, cargo, people, etc. Overall they fit the requirement.

What I wanted this time was a sunroof, bigger engine, better transmission and better seats. I’m tall and have long legs.

The VW seats are great (in the front) middle row behind the driver is unusable with me driving. I need good seating for four. If the center seats moved back about 6-8 inches it would solve this.

The SEL version I drove did not have the Nav system, back up alarms or fancy stereo.

VW has reduced the rear vision at each corner and blacked out some of the rear window. Loss of visibility means this one needs the back up camera and alarms.

There were no HID headlamps on this. The T&C has them. Major loss.

Interior dimensions. VW shrunk the inside. you can no longer get anything that is 4×8 inside. max width is about 47 inches and length about 93?

Would prefer a little more european feel and interior quality, but Mercedes pushed a lot to Chrysler and some of it remains here.

I think this is a pretty good improvement on the Chrysler products, but the loss of interior room and cramped seating for four full sized people really limits this one. Roof seems lower in the back, but that may be the sunroof impact.

Either one of these would be a good value at 23K

VW had a 6K incentive which improved things,

BUT, it still doesn’t have a 100,000K power train warranty, No history on the tranny or engine (4.0 six speed) for the most part, although I think this is the engine MB sent Chrysler for the Pacifica/MB Crossover.

For those of you who wander from Minivan to other vehicles for comparison, a minivan is what it is: a people and cargo hauler. A box is a box and this styling is much better than the last Chrysler version.

Last comments. I don’t like the shift on the dash, would like keyless ignition, and don’t think stow ‘n go seats were designed for adults.

Thanks for listening.

thanks for the response.

My friend JUST bought a Sienna, and her door handle FELL OFF! Brand new, top-of-the-line vehicle should not lose a door handle. She hasn’t been overly impressed with it anyway. SO, I am gun-shy when it comes to these vehicles and would love another option.

I tried to open my mind to the new Odyssey while out test driving vehicles. I took a look and was totally bored with it. The interior has barely changed in 7 years! It looks just like my 2002! If I’m going to put down $30k, I would like to have something that feels new and different! Is that so much to ask. Also, the Honda dealers do not care to work with people. They are doing fine and they know it so they are not cutting the deals other dealerships are doling out.

So anyway, I’m posting this rant on the Routan review instead of the Oddy review for some reason…I guess because I am tired of trying to find an alternative to my car only to read over and over again that my car is the best out there and anything else would be a foolish purchase!

Can I get you to talk with my wife?
That Buick Roadie SW is EXACTLY what we need to haul a squad of grandkids around in style. Unfortunately she’s not buying it.
Sweet ones for 5 grand and here in Indiana the plates are almost free (over 10 yrs old)

Why the heck is this the “top article on TTAC” (according to the right-hand column)?

Price includes everything but taxes…

Car drives great, looks great…nice dashboard…..

so is this a good deal or what?

Having test driven every Minivan possible TWICE until my wife decided the issue, I have to tell you that what we did not fight over was which minivan was best for the money. We bought the 2008 Caravan with every option minus the Land Nav system and still came in under $33K. The Kia Sedona is like every Kia/Hyundai I’ve ever test driven; a cheap POS that if you don’t care much about driving and the horrendous resale value, is a great deal. And good luck finding a fully loaded Toyota or Honda minivan for the same money (granted it was January 2008). The Dodge has been steady and stateful with three screaming kids and a dog and has racked more than 20K miles on it.

And most people do think as we do. Caravan is here to stay (as long as ChryCo does), and will (at least for the next while) be the best bang for your buck, that’s why they sell so well.

perpetiuity: ‘wussification of the american male’?

Find me something that can fit as much, get me that many MPGs, do it comfortably, can fit in a single parking spot, and be safe for a family, for the same cost.

You can’t, not by a long shot. In fact, minivan sales represent the american male who knows what the best bang for their buck is and meets all their needs and can laugh while others struggle in many of those areas with their cute-utes.

I agree that if I don’t NEED those things, I wouldn’t get a minivan, but for many suburban families with kids who play sports and go camping there is no better alternative, not even close.

CUV & SUVs have their own strong points, as do all segments… and I’m not shunning any of them. But the minivan segment deserves the acknowledgement of why it is as good as it is.

See my previous post in this review for my Routan vs. Caravan thoughts.

Anyway, the minivan is the wussification of the male? Really? I think that a lot of us need to get over ourrseles and buy a vehicle we need instead of something that projects the “right” image. The minivan is actually a great compromise of fuel economy and hauling ability. Thanks to the mom image, used minivans are dirt cheap to buy.

I think that the wusses/metrosexuals of the world are flocking to the Audis, Bimmers, Minis, and Smarts. Their moisturized, manicured hands will never touch a minivan steering wheel.

Having said that, I prefer the Chrysler styling to the Routan.

Today I test drove a Routan and was very impressed. It has a very tight suspension and just seems like a very well put together vehicle. The fit and finish is great! Who cares if it is built on a Daimler chassis – the car industry has become incredibly incestuous. I think this is just an economic reality.

Let me say that the Odyssey has me really fed up! The electric sliding doors are hell – they constantly break. The van has some terrible rattles and several plastic pieces have fallen off. The tranny went at 75K, I’ve replaced the brakes and suspension twice. The driver’s seat is broken (kind of askew)…anyway, no more Hondas for me.

So – the Routan I am looking at is the base model (no power sliders!). It has A/C, CD/mp3 with aux jack, 6 speakers, power locks and windows. The sticker is about 23k but I think I can get it for around 20k. I have driven a loaded town and county and found it very floaty…also I think having a Sat Radio/Navigation/etc. on the dash is really dangerous – anyone see that episode of Six Feet Under? The base model Routan is simple and elegant and a decent value. I’m also considering the Kia minivan but haven’t driven one yet.

And hey – I don’t consider myself a wuss – I just need to fit a 5 piece band with all of our instruments and something good for family roadtrips. Minivans are so utilitarian. I think it is far dorkier to feel that the car you drive is how you express your style – THAT is lame!

BTW – The used Eurovans with V6s (coolest cars ever) are just too expensive and have no warranty. Sprinters are too big for everyday. So there you have it – I LIKES THE ROUTAN!

I lament watching another European automaker execute poor decisions. Haven’t we already watched Ford turn Jaguar into Buick look a likes? God knows what the Indians will do. Oh well, the brand has been dead to me for a long time.

The Microbus, had they not thought about introducing it at a starting price of 35k (moronic!), would have killed the segment, no, would have reinvented the segment of cross over. The concept was not a minivan, suv, or utility van but somewhere in the middle.

They should introduce the Microbus starting in the low 20s up to the high 30s and watch the ticker move.

I can rant on about how the Minivan is a sign of the times, delusional comfort, delusional normalcy, fatness, grandiose entitlement syndrome, overweight-ness, simulacra of civilization, and generally a bad sign for society, but, I’ll just say instead:

My apologies to you minivan aficionados … the form is actually sort of useful but like Click and Clack say, the Minivan represent the wussification of the American male and that is no more aptly said if they are behind the wheel of a VW Routan like the guy I saw today. The Routan is a total ass-hat purchase (if you are doing the segment, go for the savings dudes, Chrysler is good enough).

Give us the Microbus. Dare to lead.

I’m contemplating a minivan, but I’m in no great hurry. I haven’t visited any dealers yet, so my info is based mostly on reviews and looking around on the road. I should say up front that I am a VW/Audi person. I was leaning toward an Odyssey, and frustrated that the Tourans and Sharans that I recently saw in Europe were not available here. So I was excited when the Routan was released. I am now a little less so from the reviews, especially on discovering that the Routan is a Caravan rather than a Touran or Sharan; but I think many of the negative posts miss some larger points.

I don’t understand why people are so biased against minivans, they’re so much better than SUV’s. The image of the SUV is the rugged, adventerous, travelling sort – but they’ve got less usable space than vans. They’re all suspension, and most people don’t come close to needing that much. You just spend a lot on gas to move it around. Even crossovers are jsut enlarged sedans without a whole lot of usable space.

So vans are great. The posts here are helpful, and I agree that VW is missing a great opportunity with the Routan. Now that SUVs are finally dying, there is the opportunity to introduce a minivan that would escape the emasculation bias. With their history and ability to push-market, VW is in the best position to do this, even without the microbus concept. I think that the better suspension is a start, but they would have been better served by introducing the Touran and Sharan to the US market (they’re not related to the Routan – Wikipedia has good info on the histories). A manual transmission option would also help, as would the wider selection of engines available in the European models.

I surf and I sail, and have dogs and now a kid and periodically load all of that up to drive long distances. When I was single, poor and looking for a van I bought an ‘88 Vanagon – mostly because it was a manual transmission. I still drive it every day, and aside from a lack of power, no 5th gear, and the repair issues that come with a 20+ year old car I think it was the best platform ever (I do most repairs myself, and I enjoy it, so that’s not so much of an issue – except to my wife). Mine is a passenger van, and it gets a still respectable 20 mpg on the highway. The fact that it is a big box is one of it’s most appealing features – I can fit loads of crap in it. The only thing I can see that really compares is the Dodge Sprinter – but that’s way expensive and I don’t think it would be nearly as good on the mileage.

So a minivan is a step down in terms of size, but I think that if if VW were to get away from the idea that a minivan is an idealized suburban mom car and offer a car with the interior of a minivan that has better handling and suspension, a manual option for those of us who like to be more involved in our driving, and some of the other design features of their popular cars (quattro, diesel, etc), I think that they could really recapture many of those that were led astray by SUV’s, moms included. Then they could justify a slightly higher price, too.

I’m resigned that there’ll never be another Vanagon, even the microbus would be too small, but surely they can offer a minivan that is as fun to drive. They have something at least close to it in Europe, so I don’t understand why the R&D would be prohibitive. All the pieces are around, they just need to be put together.

Sorry for the long post, but I am curious what others think about these things.

On top of that, the True Delta invoice difference is even higher! $6,020 to be exact.

Why someone would pay up to $6k more and lose all the following is beyond my comprehension. God forbid we support our own economy.

Face it… people will buy this vehicle because it’s a VeeDub, regardless of what I just stated, and that’s the main problem will the North American car market… but that’s a totally different can of worms that I won’t open here.

Pretty harsh comment regarding those who own minvans? Given up on life? Hardly! Most people I know who own one tend to have one of the best qualities of life I know. Active kids, parents who participate in their activities…no pretenses regarding what they’re being seen in. When my son was much younger, we had a minivan (yeah, so it was a used Pontiac Montana…but the thing could tow my pop-up camper, had dual sliding doors and was the perfect vehicle for the upteen-million Scout camps I went to). It sure as hell wasn’t sexy, but all of our gear fit into it, and when we travelled, we had no issues with taking our dogs with us, along with our stuff, plus still leaving enough room for the actual humans! The one-box design is still one of the most efficient there is when it comes to moving people and gear…period.

Now, as far as the Routan goes, I’m sorely disappointed in Volkswagen for cozing up to Chrysler. They could have done much better on their own. I’ve been in several new Chrysler vans, and the interior quality stinks! Is a VW much better? Probably not significantly. If I was looking for a minivan again, it wouldn’t be new (depreciation, and I’m not a fan of financing cars…call me old-fashioned when it comes to buying stuff. Cash is king. Maybe the economic downturn we’re in will refocus us ALL on resetting financial priorities and spending habits.)…and it wouldn’t be for a Chrysler product (or now, VW, as it were!).

The Routan can be summed up in four words: What might have been.

marc_m:

Same goes for whoever had the idea to do the Brooke Shields ads… (check out the vw.com web site, she’s there, on first page).

Nope, I just looked; she’s not there. Her ads are kind of creepy. Leave the pregnant ladies alone, Brooke, you give us all the willies!

Thirteen cupholders? Pretty soon they’re gonna hafta start considering a “stow-n-go” potty behind the third row.

This comment almost made me spit up my beverage. Luckily I didn’t short out my keyboard. Thanks for the laugh!

Alas, the SE in the showroom did not have a sticker on it – I am curious what they were asking for this 3.8L with cloth interior but with Nav and Child Placation System.

On my shuttle trip, the driver told me he had the Routan for three weeks and he was not impressed. In his broken English, he said, “Its a Chrysler,” and “When you think of VW, you think of German.” While riding along, I can say it was quiet with nary a squeak, and the ride was not floaty, about the best assessment I can give it. My driver noted the 3.8L models are underpowered.

Like all the rest of you, I can’t see it. I would my rather find a CPO Odyssey Touring and dePAX it.