In the past five years, Volkswagen has had its pants around its ankles. Gas tripled in price, Al Gore invented the environment and the brand once known for frugality didn’t have US products that could compete on fuel economy. Volkswagen’s diesel-powered Jetta and Passat weren’t even legal in VW-friendly California, NY and Massachusetts. After miles of regulatory legwork, VW brought one of its new generation European diesels up to fifty-state compliance. The Jetta 2.0 TDI hits dealers this fall. So is it The One?
The only change is underhood. This means the Jetta TDI looks like a regular Jetta. And that means it looks like a Corolla. Cut to the chase: this generation of VW’s best-selling product will never muster the charisma of the past model with its tidy mini-luxe styling. But it’s certainly no worse than the look of the cheese-wedge Civic or botoxed Focus. Just don’t mention the Mazda3.
The TDI’s interior is fine; it’s nice, it’s well built, it’s a list of mediocre compliments. Next?
If you’ve been car-aware since the Mark V Jetta debuted four years ago, none of this is news. Nor is the fact that VW offers a diesel engine. But while VW sold the 1.9-liter four-cylinder turbodiesel for the past several years, you may not know the 1.9’s history.
This 100 horsepower oil burner was first built in 1820. The metalsmith used bronze, and then died from boredom. Although VW has been selling the 1.9 as a car engine of late, in the 1920s it was marketed as a “Clatterynoisedervish;” a device designed exclusively for frightening pigeons. And though the 1.9 could deliver some 40+ MPG highway, it was mostly out of necessity; if you stopped for fuel, you ran the risk of your passengers refusing to get back into the car.
And now the good news: the Jetta’s new diesel engine. The TDI makes none of the deafening knocks, clanks or clapping sounds that lead you to think that you’re in a badly-disguised delivery van. It sounds like a boring luxury car inside, and only ever-so-slightly louder from the outside (at idle). The 2.0-liter common rail turbocharged oil burner makes 140 horsepower and a “suck my particulates, Civic” 236 lb·ft of torque. For reference, the 2.0-liter turbo gas engine in this writer’s GTI only stumps-up 207 lb·ft of twist.
Better yet, the Jetta TDI is nearly as much fun to drive as the GTI. Wipe up that nose-ejected coffee off your keyboard. In Europe, VW cranks this engine to 170 horsepower to create the GTI’s kid brother, the Golf GT.
Obviously, the diesel engine doesn’t parallel the slap-happy enthusiasm of the GTI’s mill. Nor can it rev as high; the TDI redlines at 4500 rpm. But the oil burner’s punch is smoother and more linear than its petrol-powered equivalent. There’s no slingshot effect. You just woooooosh from 30 to 60 mph without an ounce of effort. Plowing through highway traffic, hammering around tight corners, and sprinting up a hill, it’s a thoroughly willing powerplant. You get a fairly quick-revving mill without sacrificing the surging power you like. At any speed.
The suspension is more forgiving than in the GTI, but it’s still taut. As a result, you give up very little in terms of handling versus VW’s hot hatch. Seriously. The Jetta TDI rides a little like it sits on a safe, predictable, controllable Merc platform, but with sharp turn-in and genuine steering feedback.
Both transmission choices—the six-speed stick or the six-speed DSG (paddle shift flappy thingy with a full auto mode)—are superb options. The DSG is perfectly matched to the oil burning engine, keeping you in the meat of the powerband at all times. The cog-swapper may not surprise and delight Hondaphiles, but it’s easy enough to drop in the slot, to access the TDI’s tower of power.
Comparing the Jetta TDI dynamics with a comparably priced Civic, Corolla, Camry or Accord is like bringing a professional debt collector—with his pillowcase full of doorknobs—to a fist fight. Of course, there’s the MSRP vs. mileage vs. price-of-diesel-fuel debate. If you’re seriously crunching numbers, you likely don’t want this car. Besides, as Mr. Lang will tell you, buying any new car isn’t frugal.
My argument for the Jetta TDI is simple: at $23K it’s cheaper than a Jetta GLI, almost as much fun, and you’ve got to stop for fuel less often. Well, never, obviously; and the GLI and GTI require high-test. The Jetta TDI is also rolling vindication for all those American pistonheads who pointed at Europe’s oil burners and said, see? See? But is the Jetta TDI VW’s NA’s savior? Are you kidding? They’ll sell 17 of them. But those 17 owners will be thrilled.
168 Comments on “2009 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0 TDI Review...”
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I want one! Seriously. I love my Subaru but I like the idea of the spacious cabin, 600+ miles to a tank of fuel AND being fun to drive… worth it only depends on your price for fun!
“But the oil burner’s punch is smoother and more linear than its ICE equivalent.”
Uh, doesn’t ICE mean Internal Combustion Engine? Diesel is one too…
Justin – no comments about observed fuel economy?
With all the controversy and VW getting its own peeps to provide numbers to counter EPA claims, I would loved to hear what you noticed.
Having said that – this car needs to be $19k not $23k.
I agree with mxfive4. I’d love to see a little diesel (even better — wagon) under the $20k mark. I’d also like to see fuel economy reports, esp on highway cruising at various speeds. For $20k+ I’d rather have the luxury/size/fuel economy of a passat tdi. My friends wife has one and not only does it get fantastic mileage, but it is super comfortable!
Garak :
“But the oil burner’s punch is smoother and more linear than its ICE equivalent.”
Uh, doesn’t ICE mean Internal Combustion Engine? Diesel is one too…
What WAS I thinking? My bad. Text amended.
Isn’t it curious the writers above want a nearly perfect diesel to be under $20K. But they will give Prius $25K+ and Volt $40K+. The only true comparison here is take the small gas engine from either volks or the competition or go about $3K more for the diesel. I think it is a lot better gamble than the electric. Look the diesel will never need anything but a $75.00 starter battery, compare that to the Prius or Volt. The Prius is something like $5000 and the Volt $10,000 for a battery pack. As someone else said that means these cars are junked at the time of battery replacement. We know that the tradeoff on diesels has always been longevity over gas engines, so resale should be much higher. Also, I live in hilly country, and the pulling power of a turbo diesel is so much better then a small gas engine. You cannot simply write off this new generation of diesels as non-starters. They are not “the” answer for everyone, but they are part of a larger solution along with the electric and small gas engined cars.
I’d give up my ‘07 Civic for one…. in a heartbeat. Too bad the local VW dealership is a joke…
What a car, I’d trade in the Mazda3 for a TDi Sportwagen…maybe sell the old 760 too. I wonder what the ground clearance is like…because then I can forgo getting either an Escape or used XC70 for the next vehicle.
Jerry, sorry to put a pin into your balloon (argument) about hybrid batteries, but not only have they been lasting the life of the car, the life of the car (at least for the Prius) has been 250,000 miles plus, on Canadian Prius taxicabs (miles added up over a 2-3 year timeframe, cars sold on at a very low price and replaced with other Prius hybrids). Prius is one of the most reliable cars sold today, an accomplishment which is astonishing if you consider the extreme complexity.
Now to our diesel. Just drove past a BP gas station on the way to the lake with our Newfie (dog) after work yesterday.
Regular unleaded (as used by my Prius – $21,000 up, my 2008 was $24,000 – 49 mpg observed on the computer down in the work parking lot right now) was $4.01
Diesel fuel (as used by this $24,000 Jetta) $4.74
Pretty well sums up the situation, doesn’t it?
Yes, I think that maybe 15 of the 17 buyers of these things will be happy. In fact, I used to be a fanboy of diesels and never managed to get one. I think there’s even a place for them, if folks want to buy them and since they are now clean enough to be legal in the US.
But please don’t trot out fallicies about hybrids as an argument to try to make diesel look better than they are. It’s disingenious. It simply makes it obvious that there are fewer advantages than Volkswagen and Mercedes would like, if you have to resort to attempts to trash competitive ideas to try to bolster your pre-concieved point of view.
Nice review…Garak is right, though, a TDI motor is still an ICE, last time I checked.
Also, please forgive another nitpick, but the word is spelled “taut,” not “taught.” Unless of course, you were teaching the suspension a lesson or something. ;-)
The suspension is more forgiving than in the GTI, but it’s still taught.
I hate to quibble words, but I think you meant “taut”. From Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: taut
Pronunciation: ˈtȯt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English tought, perhaps from tought, toughth fierce, tough, alteration of tough tough
Date: 14th century
1 a: having no give or slack : tightly drawn
b: high-strung, tense
2 a: kept in proper order or condition
b (1): not loose or flabby
(2): marked by economy of structure and detail
BTW, when I test-drove a 2004 Prius (after which I put down a deposit and waiting 9 1/2 months for my 2005, now replaced with a 2008) – I didn’t just try to borrow one from the dealer. There weren’t any.
Coincidentally and luckily for me, the Enterprise rental car agency in the town where I work was a guinea pig for the Prius in rental fleets, and they had some 3 dozen of them. I finally got one to rent (had to go on a list for that too) and rented one for a weekend.
There is a VERY steep and long hill near town, on the way to my home. There’s a traffic light at the bottom. The road changes from 2 lane to 3 lane (2 lanes up hill) for this steep hill. It’s about 1/2 mile from traffic light to traffic light (at the top of the hill) and there are curves both at the bottom and top of the hill.
We were stuck at the traffic light behind both a “slowburban” and a smoking older chrysler minivan.
The light changed, the slowburban “parked” at 35 mph in the “fast” lane while the chrysler minivan struggled, smoking mightily, at about 38 mph in the “slow” lane (with me fuming about Michigan drivers not having any clue about “slow drivers stay to the right” behind both of them).
After the minivan cut-up the slowburban and pulled in front of him, we were 1/2 way up the (very steep) hill, doing 38 mph. Since the minivan pulled in front of the slowburban, I had an opening and figured – “let’s see what she’ll do” and I proceeded to put the pedal down about 90%.
We were doing 70 through the green light at the top of the hill (um, in a 55 zone) and blew the doors off everyone. To say I was shocked at the power & torque of electric motors would be the understatment of the day.
BTW the combined maxima torque of the current Prius is 335 Ft Lb of torque. THREE HUNDRED THIRTY FIVE FOOT POUNDS.
So much for diesel torque.
I guess you guys taut him a lesson. Tautalogically speaking…
Text amended.
Justin: great review, and (belated) congrats on your promotion to ME. I think the combo of this engine and the wagon would be damn near perfect.
Unfortunately (or fortunately), the thursty/clunky 5 cylinder in the base Jetta makes the diesel seem so much better. If VW offered a reasonably efficient 4 cylinder gasser (below the GLI/GTI), the diesel would not look too hot (especially from a value proposition).
Anybody know if the Mark VI Golf (it’s not a Rabbit, I don’t care what VW says) will get anything other than the 5cyl gas engine in the base models?
3K premium to buy, 20% better efficiency, diesel costs 20% more. The only way this makes economic sense is if you drive a helluvalot all the time, everyday, forever.
Good review overall, except for the typical slow diesel jokes that aren’t funny. VW will sell way more than 17 of these things. They’ll sell every unit that’s allocated to dealers without a problem. And the 1.9 isn’t a bad engine, I’ve been driving a Jetta TDI for 5 years now and still love the engine. I have a VE rotary pump engine in my car, and it has a decent amount of power. My parents have a 1.9 Pump duse 2005 Jetta, and it’s even better. The new 2.0 litre has enough torque that it’ll turn your new tires into racing slicks within days.
I got 51 MPG on a recent long trip with the A/C on most of the way. Hopefully the new engine will fare as well, or better. It’s just too bad about the current body style.
Mr. Farago:
Sorry to correct your correction, but I believe it is “tautOlogically,” not tauAlogically.
Of course, I never any spelinn or gramor mistakes in my posts make …
;-)
rob:
The bear is chasing me today.
Come on Justin, what about your mileage with this thing?
VW and the EPA have some very different ideas about just how fuel efficient this thing is and it would have really helped us here if you let us know what your results were.
Is VW blowing smoke out of their a$$ or what?
For this model it ALL comes down to the fuel mileage! If it is not as good as VW is claiming this is NOT a 4 star car. The advantages over a regular gas power Jetta do NOT justify its much higher price and the regular Jetta is NOT a 4 star car.
The regular Jetta is no slouch in the torque department with a 177 ft-lbs to motivate a 3200 lb car. It also has a 30hp advantage. At the end of the day the gas engine will be far more fun to drive than the oil burner.
Give us the numbers!
Failure rate on hybrid batteries is (thus far, at least) vanishingly small. So the whole “you’ll have to spend $8000 every few years on a new battery” claim is a paper tiger, unless the numbers change radically in the future.
http://tinyurl.com/65qjz8
In any case, the nice thing about diesel vs. hybrid is that diesels tend to return good mileage even if you thrash/enjoy them, while hybrids seem to be much more dependent on driving style.
Plus, for heavy highway use, diesel should return better MPG than a hybrid (I get 40 Interstate MPG in my hybrid Camry with the cruise set at 75), though the higher cost of diesel muddies the advantage.
Choice is good, and I hope VW can regain its efficiency mojo and play in the high-MPG market. The 5-cyl Rabbit and Jetta are a joke (the turbo DSGs are much more interesting).
Nice car but the Problem is.
There’s a TURBO in it.
You will never know when that turbo is going to BREAK and especially it is a Volkswagen Turbo.
149 hp with almost 250 of torque is kind of scary.
it must be howling on 5000 rpm engine noise.
Jerry, sorry to put a pin into your balloon (argument) about hybrid batteries, but not only have they been lasting the life of the car, the life of the car (at least for the Prius) has been 250,000 miles plus, on Canadian Prius taxicabs (miles added up over a 2-3 year timeframe, cars sold on at a very low price and replaced with other Prius hybrids)
Not completely true, while the batteries have indeed lasted the life (to date) of most hybrids, there was a government report on their own hybrid fleet that indicated the batteries do slowly lose capacity with age with the corresponding impact to the overall efficiency of the vehicle. This was linked here sometime within the last year and maybe some fellow member can remember where to dig up the evidence. That being said, the Prius and other hybrids shouldn’t need replacement batteries within the first 5 years of their life. Longer term ownership does carry a risk of a siginificant maintenance cost.
Right you are brettc on the “sell 17 of them” line…The local V Dub dealer pre-sold every allocated unit for 2008 with a required $500 deposit BEFORE list price was even released…They’ll sell like hotcakes aka pancakes…Great real world solution to $4/gas…and also typical panic reaction but that is another topic. My son has a 2006 Rabbit aka Golf and even with the 2.5 “John Deere” engine, he gets 23-25 mpg around town with available torque that Civic and Corolla only dream about…The “Audubon for All” campaign is accurate as well: VWs are great road cars…This new Jetta TDI would be an awesome cross country cruiser…and require very few stops at the diesel pumps in the process.
Sounds like an intriguing economical little car. I am in the market for a second car, and really want something tolerably roomy and very frugal. The Prius is an obvious choice. This VW could get my attention if I thought VWs poor reliability (coupled with high repair costs) had been laid to rest. But as far as I know, it hasn’t.
TTAC Readers, you want the numbers, you got them. Real, observable numbers from several different testing sources (Popular Mechanics, Canadian Driver, real drivers, etc… and ME!)
2006 Jetta TDI 1.9L 5spd manual (My own)
Observed City – 36mpg
Observed Highway – 42mpg (75mph), 47 (60-65mph)
Race Day – 22mpg
2009 Jetta TDI 2.0L (both transmissions)
Observed City – 32-34mpg
Combined Cycle – 35-36mpg
Highway – 39-41mpg
I test drove one of these a couple of weeks ago and really liked it. I might have waited to get one but when the sales rep told me that they are charging a $4,000 markup for the TDI version, I went with a different Jetta. Because of that, I bought the Wolfsburg with the 2.0T even though it requires premium. At least it gets better gas mileage than my old G35 coupe.
I280 and the Ohio Turnpike. Diesel at $4.09 today. Just about time to get the 1985 W126 out of hibernation. (The one with the original turbo that’s just fine after 23 years.)
My folks were recently THIS CLOSE to buying one. They ended up with a Passat 2.0t DSG instead (more room, options).
But this came only after my dad’s frank discussion with the German head mechanic at his local dealership. This guy is a straight shooter and my dad has purchased 4 or 5 other cars from this establishment (20+ VWs lifetime).
The mechanic told him off-the-record that the new tdi has backpressure issues, due in part to the downstream particulate filter. He said the engines tended to be fine for those driving 25k+ miles a year on the highway, but that city driving tended to cause the engine trouble…in addition to preventing the cost/benefit ratio to work out in your favor.
I’m still a fan, so I found this news a bit sad. I guess the economics are just not for me, especially with electro-mechanical kinks yet to be worked out.
@whatdoiknow1: I intentionally didn't include MPG for this car in the review. Why? Because this isn't a competitor for the Prius, and the diesel versus economical gas versus hybrid debate make my face hurt. Anyone that would look at the Prius will not like the Jetta TDI. At all. It will not make a slight bit of sense to them. This new Jetta TDI is a Volkswagen GLI alternative that gets better mileage than the GLI and it cheaper than the GLI. PS – I observed 36 mpg driving the snot out of it, all in town and on B roads. Did not take a long highway trip, so cannot give you absolute best numbers unfortunately.
39 MPG sounds pretty awesome. Now, if only Americans got the same tax breaks on Diesel fuel that the Europeans do.
Bring over the Polo and the Touran, Volkswagen! PLEASE!
CMK
Thanks for the reminder…this car was actually just approved a couple weeks ago for nearly $2k in federal tax credits for buyers!
Probably worth considering to offset the price.
Holy torque Batman! If only there were some hope that this vehicle would be any more reliable than any other VW product.
Justin,
Agreed, this whole diesel v. hybrid debate is taking years off my life! Both will be around for a long time, both have significant advantages and disadvantages. You are exactly right though, in this case, these two cars are not comparable, a Jetta may look like a Toyota, but 2 seconds behind the wheel, blindfolded and drunk you’d still be able to tell the difference
Justin,
I respectfully disagree (as opposed to disrespectfully disagreeing) with your statement that this car is not a competitor for the Prius.
Their price point, excellent mileage figures, and 4 door body style make them natural competitors. I understand what you’re saying in that the VW is more of a driver’s car and the Toyota is more reliable, but one would wonder if indeed these cars will be cross shopped.
We’ll see.
I’ll take the wagon diesel thanks with a side of 4motion.
There is no comparison between this car and a Prius. Totally different purpose. Who cares if the prius has 335ft-lbs of torque? No prius will ever see a track, auto-x, or take a tight turn quickly. You could call the TDI an enthusiast car, you could also call the Prius an appliance.
I just don’t think diesel is the savior everyone wants it to be. For those who don’t know oil refining, you can only get so much diesel fuel from a barrel of oil, which isn’t much. Same applies to gasoline but it’s easier to get more of that from a barrel. Europe uses more diesel than gasoline so they sell the unwanted gasoline to the States where we can use it up and helps supress the price.
Switching the USA over to a diesel fleet simply cannot happen – there isn’t enough oil out there to refine. That’s why I’d much rather see the diesel fuel used where it makes the most sense – farm & construction machinery, heavy trucks and boats.
Seems like such a waste to use diesel fuel to shuttle around trixies in their jettas when we’ve got plenty of gasoline to burn that isn’t needed for important work. If you want high mileage, buy a hybrid, Honda & Toyota have much better reliability numbers that Volkswagen.
We were doing 70 through the green light at the top of the hill (um, in a 55 zone) and blew the doors off everyone. To say I was shocked at the power & torque of electric motors would be the understatment of the day.
BTW the combined maxima torque of the current Prius is 335 Ft Lb of torque. THREE HUNDRED THIRTY FIVE FOOT POUNDS.
Euhm…
First of all concerning driving Prii up hills I’ve read other anecdotal evidence stating that it’s less then impressive, but I suppose it is very much dependant on the slope and longevity of the ascent.
More importantly, I do suppose you are aware that that ‘official’ max torque figure is just a hypothetical figure, because under driving the (combined) powerplant will never near generate that amount of torque.
IMHO, the best way to assess the amount of real life torque delivered is to time 30-55 and 55-80 sprints. Aside from any other issues, I at least bet that in comparable gears the TDI will crush the Prius by a mile.
Rspasite said “In any case, the nice thing about diesel vs. hybrid is that diesels tend to return good mileage even if you thrash/enjoy them, while hybrids seem to be much more dependent on driving style.”
Totally accurate. As an owner of a Prius and prior owner of a Prius, I concur 100%.
Also, the other down-side of the (current gen.) Prius for nations which insist upon force-feeding non-gasoline to the buying public, I regularly see a 15% decline in MPG on E10 in the Prius, and while this is in line with prior testing on virtually every other car I’ve tested since 1979, it’s highly disappointing (especially given two salient facts; 1) that there is only ONE fuel station in my area which now sells pure gasoline, thankfully only about 8 miles out of the way and 2) on my wife’s 2007 Sonata four cylinder, the MPG drop on E10 is only 6%).
However, diesels don’t get off scot-free here, either, given that I’m now reading that Biodiesel mixed with petro-diesel fuel is providing for fewer MPG, along with adding the the number of breakdowns in cold weather (i.e. the idiots in charge of Minnesota demanding higher concentrations of bio- in their diesel combined with super-cold winter temps).
Intentionally mis-fuelling vehicles is not a good thing, but even worse when mandated by governments. Especially when said governments are run by imbeciles.
Still waiting for the A8 4.0L twin turbo V8 diesel, or at least a Euro-spec 3.0L V6.
2.0L TDI? Yawn. Adequate is not good enough to get me to buy a diesel, it has to be stupendously powerful (ie torquey and quick) and sip fuel like a much smaller engine. See my list above for what I mean.
From the review, this sounds like a really fun-to-drive, four door sedan that actually seats four, that doesn’t scream “I’m speeding.” Perfect!
So why is everyone hung up on the Prius vs diesel thing? Geez. No one has a problem with the G37 getting lousy mileage, but if you offer a sedan that gets good mileage it’s automatically a loser because you might get better mileage in a Prius?
Personally, I’d love to give it a spin. It sounds awesome. Yes, the VW reliability thing adds a few thousand to the price for the extended warranty, but fun handling cars with great powertrains that get good mileage just don’t come along very often.
And should be given at least a passing nod from pistonheads!
JJ, what was theoretical about my 70 mph swing through that green light at the top of Green Hill near Traverse City, Michigan with a starting speed some 1/4 mile away of 38 mph? It’s a pretty steep grade, and gets steeper about 1/2 way up, just before I started “nailing” it.
Extreme acceleration on an uphill takes TORQUE and a lot of it.
Torque makes acceleration. (Prius: 0-60 in 10 to 10.5 seconds per multiple tests since 2004). In all likelihood, this is actually LIMITED by the computer (traction control) since so much torque would essentially simply shred the front tires if not controlled.
Horsepower makes top speed. (Prius: 106 mph).
I like my Prius. But I’m not against all the other solutions out there.
I don’t believe there is ONE solution, or ONE future motor fuel. I think we’re soon going to be done with the “gasoline reciprocating engine” era – and we’ll have to adjust to alternatives, and several of them.
In fact, I was considering the idea of a Honda Accord diesel in addition to our Prius (given that I don’t like Volkswagen’s infamous unreliability – sorry) when it comes out. But given that my wife’s Sonata can tow our little pop-up camper (which the Prius cannot), and that the E10 mpg differential is pretty low with the Sonata, and that the diesel Accord would PROBABLY cost me $5000-$8000 more than a new Sonata 4 cyl., as a guess, and given that diesel fuel is 73 cents a gallon higher here than gasoline – the math doesn’t add up. Even so, I hope Honda do sell the diesel for those folks who wish to have that option.
Plus as someone else mentioned, there is the problem of not having sufficient diesel fuel capacity in North America, which stems from a different refinery technique used on this side of the pond (which results in more gasoline and less diesel per gallon of crude oil than does the European method of refining). In fact, Europe has been so hell-bent on diesels, they’ve had excess gasoline to sell on the world market for years now, and America has tended to buy it.
Man I really wish VW would fix their quality problems and horrid dealers. Reading reviews like this, riding and my brothers TDI he had for a few months and just generally liking VW driving dynamics makes me want to get one, but I wont touch the brand in it’s current form. Jeez I wont even take my Subaru to the VW/Subaru dealer 5 miles from our house because they are crooks who don’t know what they are doing. I would rather take my car 80 miles away and know they aren’t going to screw it up.
Are they offering the TDI and both trannies in all the VW’s they sell here? IF I were to consider getting one it would have to be a Golf, I hated the Wolfsburg loaner we had for a week last year, it was a horrible driving car and dangerous in wet conditions.
I’ll stick with my GLI, thanks. It’s quick, fast, economical, AND reliable (71K miles and counting…)
Justin Berkowitz :
August 15th, 2008 at 10:40 am
@whatdoiknow1: I intentionally didn’t include MPG for this car in the review. Why? Because this isn’t a competitor for the Prius, and the diesel versus economical gas versus hybrid debate make my face hurt. Anyone that would look at the Prius will not like the Jetta TDI. At all. It will not make a slight bit of sense to them. This new Jetta TDI is a Volkswagen GLI alternative that gets better mileage than the GLI and it cheaper than the GLI. PS – I observed 36 mpg driving the snot out of it, all in town and on B roads. Did not take a long highway trip, so cannot give you absolute best numbers unfortunately.
Nevermind the Prius or any other hybrid what I care about is if this thing actually has any real advantage in the real world. Personally I do not see this as an alternative to a GLI/ GTI. Anyone interested in a GLI aint gonna be happy with only 140hp. The engine characteristics of the diesel are just not enjoyable enough and the price advantage is not signifcant enough either. I think it is begging the issue to compare downward from a GLI when the correct comparison to to compare upward from a base model Jetta were the price difference IS very significant.
In a nutshell if the Jetta TDI is not managing a solid 40mpg it quickly become a “what’s the point” car. VW already know this, that is why they needed to publish their own “independent” mileage figures.
The biggest issue with diesels in the USA is simply one of hassle! Do the benefits of owning a diesel powered car out-weight the extra hassles of owning a diesel.
Minor quibble. Al Gore didn’t invent the environment. He does, however, know everything, absolutely everything, about it. And knows it for the next 100 years, too! Why, its just amazing….
PS – Himself doesn’t like your stinky sooty rattlecans. That is all.
drifter
Re: quickness
My dad’s comment was “It’s quick–not quite R32 quick, but still quick” (R32 is his daily driver)
He guessed about 8 seconds to 60mph in the Jetta. The old model was around 11+ seconds. Keep in mind the new engine was not derived from the old one. Completely different beast, aimed more at driveability/smoothness than economy (like the 1.9 was)
@whatdoiknow1:
I see what you’re saying, but I still have to stick to my guns that this Jetta is a superb all arounder.
I love my GTI desperately, and would happily consider this alternative.
The acceleration off the line is great – about 8 seconds 0-60, the at-speed acceleration is even better. The economy is strong, even if it’s not close to Prius numbers.
But it’s so much more fun than the non-hybrids offered at $21,990 that I can’t really justify them. And considering the increase in mileage and the tax credit, the extra fuel cost and extra price is probably a wash or close enough to it.
In other words, I doubt this would be any cheaper to buy and run than a comparably priced car. But it is a hell of a lot more fun than most of them.
I think alot of people are overlooking the purpose of this type of car in their hunt for paper machinations and those lies, damn lies, and statistics.
A current generation prius can beat this type of car in the MPG war and cost per mile war, sure. Except, wait. If you are a highway tycoon, the Prius excels (and accels) less in comparison. It’s more of a city car, where it can utilize battery only operation.
Hence why a BMW 520d received better gas mileage than a current generation Prius in a long road trip in Europe. (Do a search for it, I’m not going to right now).
This type of machine, being a 4-door standard sedan diesel, is about a few things:
1. Better Fuel economy – Lots of folks like to quote the current price of diesel as a reason it’s not long-term efficient. Well, since we are looking at the long-term….why don’t you look at diesels price over the long-term as well. Oils slid $30 in the past few weeks….personally, I think it’s going to stabilize around $100 a barrel. This alone will help reduce the disparity in prices. If more automakers bring over diesels (likely), then more refining capacity will likely be added in the future, or more refining switched to diesel, which will help quell the price disparity in the long-term.
Also, Diesels tend to do better in real-world terms vs. hybrids, which seem to do worse. If you want to cruise at 75mph and not worry about bursts of acceleration, Diesel fuel economy might be more up your alley.
2. These things make really nice power at engine speeds most people are puttering around at. When I’m at 3000 rpms in my 06 Civic SI, my car makes roughly 73 HP (HP = accelerative ability of the car) at the flywheel. The diesel, OTOH, makes almost twice as much HP at the same engine speed.
And it makes it quickly, without fuss. So the diesel will provide a much more satisfying in-gear low RPM surge in power.
Personally, I hope this trend continues. Acura is slated to bring over a new diesel engine into their TSX line-up….which if they refine the front end of the car, might make for a very tasty package at ~180-200 HP and ~300 lb/ft of torque.
BMW is bringing over the 335d at some point….
If this continues, you’ll find out why diesels are so much fun.
And if you doubt that, then go drive a Prius and a Jetta diesel and tell me which one a car-guy/gal would prefer to drive on a daily basis.
Joe
P.s. I am looking forward to the new-gen Prius arriving, as it’s supposed to have ~160 HP and more handling prowess…but we’ll see.
Justin-
To your point about acceleration, I think people focus too much on the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times….those are somewhat dissapointing in a diesel.
But compare a 50-70 or 40-60 in-gear pull time….the type of thing you are actually likely to do on a daily basis.
Just a basic primer on torque vs. HP:
Torque is the twisting force an engine can generate
HP is really a measure of the car’s acceleration
HP is simply a function of torque multiplied by engine RPMs.
So if you want to compare two vehicles and their specific acceleration at a given engine speed, then do this calculation:
Engine speed (rpms) x torque output at that engine speed / 5252
You will get the HP output the engine is creating at that engine speed. And this will tell you the accelerative capability of that engine.
Of course, acceleration is then aided or muted by vehicle weight and gearing…but you’ll get the gist.
Joe
P.s. That’s one of the reasons the BMW 335i is so bad-ass….look at the freaking HP it makes at 2000 or 2500 rpms compared to it’s naturally aspirated rivals.