I generally like the prius, which is weird because tire-shredding, turbocharged mayhem excites me. What I like about it is that it’s a sign of progress. We need new technology on the market to find out what works. Of all the “hybrid” vehicles for sale right now, only the Prius delivers any real fuel savings.

However, when it came down to it, I didn’t but one, and not just because I like to throw cars around corners with reckless abandon. I didn’t buy it because it was too expensive. The fuel savings were appealing, but I just couldn’t afford the initial sticker price. I did some quick math and figured out that in order for the gas savings to make up for the initial cost over, say, a Honda Civic, you would have to drive it for about ten years. The Prius has not been in production long enough to know about its long-term reliability.

The thing that really disappoints me about the Prius and other “hybrid” vehicles? They STILL USE GAS!

I’ll get excited about electric cars when auto makers can actually produce a practical, AFFORDABLE car that doesn’t need gasoline at all.

The exceptions are gold-diggers who gravitate toward money and thus find an SL or a Ferrari irresistible. It’s not the guy, it’s his wallet.

Check this idea for a commercial.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=R-hBA-8Ehgk

At least now you’re only calling me a “rascal”!

Just for your info, we have 2005 Prius with cloth interior and NAV with 47k miles. We are asking $22,995.00. I’ll let you know if we get that much for it.

We also just got an 07 Prius with 2,000 miles package 1, asking $25,900.

My guess is they will command the price.

We’ll see what the market bears.

Now, this here Corolla that I have lots of in stock and can sell you right now is brand-new, gets nearly as good gas mileage, and should hold its resale value much better…”.

The current high price of gas has made the short-supply Prius something of a ‘halo’ car for Toyota in that it draws people into the showroom so salesmen can sell them something else.

It’s almost the ‘anti-Viper’, a highly impractical, expensive, gas-guzzler that few people can afford but draws them into Dodge dealerships to look at. That’s when the salesmen pounce on them and try to sell them a craptacular Caliber or Caravan.

“Toyota aims to sell at least 1 million hybrid vehicles a year from the early 2010s.”

“Toyota is in talks with General Motors about producing the hybrid Prius at their joint production venture in California, a newspaper today”

“The automaker said this month sales of the Prius had topped one million vehicles since the launch in Japan in 1997, followed by North America, Europe and elsewhere in 2000.”

Toyota has recently reached an agreement to build two NiMH battery factorys and one Lithuium-Ion Factory for the next gen Plug-In Prius.

It took Toyota from 1997 to present to sell one million Prius, and they intend to sell one million a year from the “early 2010’s”. Anybody want to hazard a guess as to how that will affect the depreciation on the current generation Prius, especially if you pay sticker or close to it? The 2010 models will be much more advanced and fuel efficient, and they will be Plug-ins that will probably travel 30-60 miles on battey power alone!

What do you think?

DING! You observations are very astute. See BMW 135i review for another example.

1. Posting the Hummer study
2. Bringing up battery life (implying the batteries age out before the reasonable life of the car)
3. Claiming Priuses depreciate more than Corollas

All are FUD. All are false.

Sorry; if the shoe fits, wear it. And if I lived in your neck of the woods, I’d be telling my friends and colleagues to avoid your shop because of it.

I set the cruise control on the HCH and the poor car kept having to downshift on the long stretches up the hills.

Well, except that the Civic hybrid has a CVT and can’t shift… (the first generation also had a manual option.)

Apparently you did not read my previous posts about what motivates our buyers that choose a Prius.

We basically get two kinds of people who come in on the Prius. The first are very serious about getting a Prius. We don’t sell them a Prius, they are already committed to buy before they walk in the store. They don’t even suggest that we discount the car off of MSRP. They don’t care that it may take 3-4 months now to get a car. They don’t care that we cannot guarantee their color choice. We are now telling customers that we don’t even know what the price will be because there may be one or two price increases, and they may end up with an ’09 model by the time their Prius arrives.

Yet, they still put a $500.00 deposit down on a ‘maybe’ color, and an MSRP of who knows, and they’re willing to wait until who knows when.

This type of customer CANNOT be converted to a Corolla by “deceit”, nor by rational economic persuasion. They want a Prius for reasons that are inextricably intertwined with their self-image. Only a fool would try to convert someone who is willing to pay you MSRP and wait until you call them. End of story.

The other type of customer has no emotional or ego-identity investment in the Prius. They are curious about the car and want to drive it. After driving it and looking at the monthly payments they decide it is not the car they want. We don’t decide for them, nor do we convince them through deceitful methods. They already know the Prius is not the car for them. They either don’t like it because of aesthetics, drivability, or it doesn’t make economic sense for them now – today.

This customer might buy a Corolla or a Yaris because they are payment conscious and they’re concern for the environment does not overcome the needs of their family budget.

Ridigar, we don’t deceive our customers. Our store is located less than 2 miles from the Pentagon in Crystal City. Crystal City is headquarters to the Military Industrial Complex.
Almost every defense related company has offices within 1 mile of our store. Our average customer is graduate educated, engineers, MBA’s, Lawyers, CEO’s, very high ranking military officers, Cabinet Officials, Whitehouse staff, etc. We sell to Congressman and their staff, and other high ranking Gov’t officials. They all have access to Federal Credit Unions which provide extensive consulting and financing of automobiles. If we were deceitful, word would spread like wild fire. Deceit is immoral and counter productive.

There’s nothing particularly wrong with it since a Corolla isn’t a poor car purchase by any means, but it is in keeping with the traditional deceitful auto salesman demeanor and he chose the wrong venue to attempt to convince other, more astute auto aficionados of his ploy.

Kind of like how I proved you were wrong when you implied the Prius was closer to the Corolla/Civic than the Camry/Accord, and you just moved on to the next topic without blinking an eye.

I actually think that a Prius may finally make economic sense. I evaluated it by taking the price differential between the Prius and Corolla (adjusted for features that the Corolla doesn’t share with the Prius) and assumed it would be conservatively invested then compared that to the gas savings assuming an average annual increase in gas prices of 10%. I hadn’t considered it from the lease or loan aspect of purchasing, as I don’t borrow money to buy a car. But, maybe onthefrontline has a valid point when viewed from that angle. The more that he is attacked on a personal basis rather than a demonstration of how and where his calculations are incorrect, the stronger his position becomes.

Apparently Toyota has 20,000 Batteries left for the ‘08 production of Prius worldwide. We are now writing “08 or 09″ on our factory orders and the price is unknown.

I don’t know how true this is but it comes from our Toyota Rep today.

I also saw that Toyota is building a new battery plant so they can increase production:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080523/AUTO01/805230414/1148

From LA Times Article

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hybrid23-2008may23,0,5437081.story

“Buyers spooked by high hybrid prices should consider high-mileage conventional cars, such as the Toyota Corolla, the Honda Fit, the Mini Cooper or the Ford Focus, which get 28 mpg or more but can cost thousands less than hybrids, some experts advise

While I wondered about the massiveness of the original Prius, set in the amazingly light, spacious and incredibly ugly Echo chassis, it has become apparent that the diversity in technology is of ultimate benefit to a planet which has become addicted to transportation.

The Prius may or may not make sense as a cold hard cash transaction, but if people enjoy the economy and buy them, we will all enjoy the fruits of the knowledge which will surely accrue as more experience is gained in the design of more efficient transportation.

Most of us have read enough accounts of the early days of the automobile, when they were ridiculously complex compared to the horse alternative, and certainly not economical to see the similarities in the arguments against the Prius of today. Similarly, at its birth the computer was viewed as a curiousity. I seem to recall that predictions were made that the world might get by on three or four of them located in strategic places around the globe.

Interesting debate, however.

The CNW study was discredited all over the internet by everybody with a shred of reputability for months on end. The depreciation data (Prius being the least depreciated car overall) was available for years. The fact that the batteries simply aren’t wearing out has been known for years.

What do we call it when people continue to say things they know (or ought to know) are false in order to try to sow confusion? Anybody have a nice, civil, term to use?

LOVE the debate! Thats why we have these comments (but remember, keep it civil, you are both educated adults).

I see both sides of the argument, and am glad ya’ll are having it. These topics need to be discussed as the Prius, no matter what your position continues to be the most polarizing car on the market.

While I will never buy one as I find it extremely boring to drive, where I drive (I don’t have stop and go commutes, and being an aviator, my accelerator tends to be pushed to the carpet more often than not), I welcome the little thing to the market, and am fascinated by the technology. Toyota made one heck of a little car, for a certain demographic.

One thing you haven’t brought up yet, or discussed, the batteries. What about disposal, battery life, and if they rupture in an accident? I’m not very knowledgeable on any of these points. I hear stories of batteries leaking after a severe crash, and the toxicity of them becoming a hazard for disposal companies. I welcome anybody with knowledge on this to contact me via e-mail!