An Outback wagon – even with the turbo – hasn’t the power-to-weight ratio to fishtail on dry pavement. On slippery pavement any rear-wheel drive car will fishtail. An AWD car will likely do so less because the torque is split between the front and rear wheels as well as side-to-side.

Of course, with a front-wheel driver you don’t have an option to mash the throttle to help get around a slippery curve and always end up nose first into the snow bank.

Yes, you can get a bit of a funny movement out of a manual turbo Legacy sedan if you step off the throttle at high revs and speed in a turn. You won’t be getting there in an Outback, though…and certainly not on slippery roadways…you’d have to be crazy or over-libated to drive that fast.

Before I brought it home I had the STI short throw shifter installed and later I gave COBB tuning a call. Now I LOVE the car! :)

This is not to say Forester’s perfect – Megan here had many complaints about it, some of which are true (Forester’s interior, other than leather, is cheap/rattles/easily damaged, the 4 speed trans could use another gear).

However, if you want manual trans and Turbo, Outback’s your only choice (Subaru tried manual trans and turbo with Forester – lost money because no one save a handful of enthusiasts would buy ‘em).

If you go either way, get rid of the Stock tires as fast as you can afford to, and put Nokians or some quality tire on the Bu’s. They’ll make a world of difference.

FYI – gas mileage is more like 30mpg freeway….on a recent 400 round trip up and down mountain passes and involving about 40 miles of in-town driving, we averaged 29mpg.

Passing power is merely adequate….fine with driver only, labored with a passenger, nearly impossible with 4 passengers and a full load….you’ve got to slam it in to 3rd and floor it

The back is a textbook example of excellent engineering…backs seats are push-button fold down nearly flat for hauling anything; secret compartments under the floor and in walls to keep purses, bungie cords, first-aid kit, etc…it’s my favorite feature of the car; nice touch in having various fold-down, self-retractable hooks around the back for tie downs and bungie cords

I see Subaru giving in more to the mainstream, and it’s bothersome. I’m going to have to replace my ‘96 2.2 5 speed Outback someday. It’s a great car in every respect. It’s the only car I’ve ever driven that feels like it has four very sticky yet agile round feet instead of mere tires. In those moments which really count, I can’t imagine a better friend on the highway.

If things get really bad, I think I will pick up and live somewhere in the EU and find a Citroen D for longer trips and just walk or take the bus…

The Total value of the Spec. B is the aluminium suspension and the inverted Bilstein (ergo, the “B”) struts. The interior bits are just baubles on top of less unsprung weight. The 6-speed is nice, but most of my driving is city-based rowing so I rarely get out of third (and it is too fun to keep up the revs).

Is the interior holding up? Yes. Fantastically well. I have never had a Subaru with interior issues other than the two SVXs, which had door panel rattle issues that needed to be massaged – but the SVX’s was such a way cool interior…who cared?

When I bought it (the Spec. B), I was about to trade my VDC wagon for an STi. Then I saw that oxblood interior and the choice was simple.

My VDC had 140k miles on it. I had lived in SanDiego and made daily trips to the dog beach with the airedale in the back. And, of course, the car sat in the hot sun many days. There was never an issue with the quality of that interior (tan leather/ wood trim) whatsoever.

Subaru never were much for a large selection in interior pallets as was, say, Audi. But even Audi has caved from interior options that used to include 10 colors of leather, three woods, aluminium and carbon trim. Heck, you want an S4 wagon now? You can have any color interior so long as it is black, with the afforementioned aluminium trim.

Subaru did design a stunning interior after the SVX. It is in the B9 – sorry RF. But, I think that – in general – they have fallen into the trap of black/ charcoal grey and aluminium trim. It’s the cliche’ interior for any car with sporting pretentions these days whether it be a Bently (in which case the alu-trim is machine burnished) or a Pontiac.

I sat in an STi a couple of weeks ago. I wasn’t unimpressed with the interior – but I wasn’t overly assessing it either. I don’t think that – in terms of interior luxury – one should expect too much from Subaru, true limited editions like the ‘06 Spec. B aside. They aren’t luxury cars. But, in my 500k+ miles of driving them, I have never had an instrument light burn out, a switch fail or some trim pop off, which is more than I can say for my friends BMWs, Audis and Benzs.

I may have to wait a year for the STi though. At $40k I think it should have heated seats and mirrors – especially here in New England – especially at my advancing age.

First year Spec B (’06). They made 500 of them in a unique silver exterior with a really beautiful black, brick red and aluminum interior. Alas, they were 5-speeds. But it is the nicest Suby interior ever! And, much nicer than the current black and blue treatment….or is it all just dark grey now?

ddavidv I’m pretty sure our LGT has a slight rear bais I can drift it ever so slightly in hard turn, but spin it around I find that hard to fathom. I have broken all 4 tires a couple times in wet pavement(stock tires suck for sh*t) and the car just plows in a straight line from where is let loose. If you let off on the throttle the car grips hard and goes where ever the wheel is pointed, I have a feeling that is what people might be doing. I have shown my wife how it works because in a panic situation doing what you would normally do in a FWD car might drive you into a ditch.

That is to say, a 5MT Forester has the same baseline torque distribution as a 5MT Outback and a 5MT Legacy.

The 4EAT (electronically adjusted automatic transmission) is different as is the 5EAT. The STi is variable.

My bet is that these reports of spinning on ice are a combination of driving style and – perhaps on ice – the various transmissions method of coping with quickly and widely varying traction at each wheel.

I had a conversation a couple of years ago with an Audi/ BMW dealer about the advantages of each system. He said that the A4 was better than the xi in snow, but that the xi was far better on sheer ice because the traction control on the BMW happened only at the wheels – not in the driveline(this was with the initial xi system which was essentially freely spinning shafts regulated simply by automated application of the brakes).

I find it difficult to loop my 5MT Spec. B. I can’t imagine it is too easy to loop an Impreza either. Though you may get a wee bit of lift-throttle oversteer due to engine braking in low gears, there is not enough mass behind you to keep the tail going unless you totally panic and slam on the binders. Certainly not the characteristics of an older Porsche, where the engine is back there just waiting to swing around and say “Hi!”.

ddavidv, do other AWD vehicles behave as the Outback does? Does the Forester, which has different F/R AWD bias than the outback, behave similarly?

I think you have nailed the Subaru experience that keeps most of us coming back: they just keep going and going. And we buy cars to drive them, don’t we.

All of this tail-happy handling talk gave me pause. The spouse complained once she looped the thing leaving the parking lot at work with little provocation, so I spent some painful (LOL) time with in myself in the snow to see what the deal was. I think the problem is more the driver. AWD cars handle differently than pretty much anything else I’ve driven (and I’ve rally-tested a lot of cars). You have to pretend it’s a Porsche; don’t lift in the turns. Give it a little more throttle. Worst thing it will do is understeer a bit. Usually it will just plant itself and go where you point it.

12 years of outdoor living and poor maintenance on my part has the clearcoat failing. That, and it’s advanced age generally, has me considering replacement. It’s proving real hard to get excited about anything other than a Subaru simply because I never have to work on the thing. I’d really like a 3 series wagon, but do I really want to hear my wife complain about failed window regulators again, like I did with the VW that preceded it? Tough choice: appliance, or joy at a cost of my own garage time and wallet?

I think the Legacy GT, to me, represents upscale mid-level performance. It offers a very unique blend of performance tuning, amenities, ride quality and sound dampening for it’s price range. I like that it’s one of the few cars on the market right now that seems to offer almost everything I’m looking for in all the right doses….

To me, it also seems like a transition car for those going from economy to entry luxury…it’s got more practicality than a 3-series, more performance than a base 3-series, good safety, and alot of standard options.

Joe

Right on with your comments!

I have an ‘06 LGT Spec. B.

0 problems, except for the 2,800 rpm hiccup – followed by a nice launch. They got rid of it once – with a reflash and and new air filter, but it came back.

And – folks are impressed and suprrised that it is a Subaru. They were with my 2001 VDC wagon as well.

After 40K miles everything else about the car has been great, even the interior has held up great, and everyone who gets in our car in impressed and very surprised it’s a Subaru.

To me, the spec.B is upmarket. $44k CAD for a midmarket (is it even that?? since when?) sedan is highway robbery.

Also to me, a stripper is a complete letdown. For us folks that spend more time on the road than we do sleeping in a day, I enjoy a few niceties for my commute. A $26k stripper is also highway robbery, when I can get a 16k nicely appointed Golf City (think Nokian or Goodyear ‘winters’ for handling, etc… little upgrades in which their value far exceeds their cost), Suzuki SX4 etc. for a little more $$ for an AWD kit…

So… what is a Subie? ?Low/mid/upmarket? Depends on the model? And once we’ve established that, are they worth the premiums over a) the other Subie models and b) the rest of the market (and by worth I mean TCO etc. not anecdotal stories)?

I was specifically referring to the new TSX…the current one just isn’t it. (Whats with the bright red felt ashtray, anyway?).

Honda revised the DBW programming in October of 06, I had mine reflashed. Previously, the throttle had a way-too-long delay at times and the revs would “hang” at the rpm you were at when you pushed the clutch in…for about 2 seconds. No longer there.

Nonetheless, it’s still quite difficult to get a smooth shift about 50% of the time. Note though, I’m not saying 1/2 of the shifts. I swear, and I’ve corrobated this with other owners, that on somedays it’s easy to shift everytime…and others, it feels like you’ve owned the car for a week.

BTW, I drive 60-70% highway right now and 30-40% suburban. I average 26-28mpg depending on winter/summer driving conditions.

I’d like to get my wife into an 08 LGT or a CPO 335i 6-speed sedan. Sure, there’s an 8k difference in cost…but you only live once :)

Joe

I wonder how the Outback handles a CU style lane change with AWD bias set more like the Forester, which is more FWD biased. Unfortunately, only the STI models allow that sort of tweaking. In any event, the double wishbone on the Imprezas and (soon) Foresters got rid of those vehicles’ tendencies to do tail slides.

I just got my ‘08 Legacy GT, and have a friend with an ‘05 version. I cannot see where the interior has cheapened, except for the deletion of the Momo steering wheel, and the substitution of a Subaru one. So where do you think it has been cheapened? I note you made the same remark in your actual review of the LGT.

I had an Impreza auto before, which lasted so long I got fed up with it, and I find the 5 speed auto in the GT works a treat. I’m an engineer, so the first thing I noticed is that the normal S mode has a very loose torque converter feel, and is great for stepping out quickly, but a waste of gas in slow city driving. Use I mode – its much tighter at town speeds. When you need to go quick just hit the S# button on the wheel on the fly. Simple.

The manumatic feature on the console shift on both 4 and 5 speed autos is basically useless, because it’s backwards and completely counterintuitive to me. However, the shift paddles are just great, and the blipping throttle works a treat. I use them all the time. Cruising along at 60 klicks or so, clack that left hand paddle 3 times, you’re in 2nd almost instantly, and shove your right foot down. Gone.

My car is very smooth, so haven’t come across any bucking issues. But it was a lightly used demo, apparently driven by the prez of Subaru Canada – that’s what I was told, anyway, and it took over two weeks to arrive.

First car I’ve ever owned that people compliment me on the looks. Happens every day. (Twice today) I’m not used to that at all. And it’s the sedan.

So far, I’m pumped. I like Subies.

kurtamaxxguy
Didn’t notice any turbo lag on your malibu maxx? Probably because it doesn’t have a turbo. I think Subaru has done a good job with later models to map the throttle to minimize turbo lag, but even then, if you notice it has a jerky ride, it’s probably because you’re either not used to having that much power underfoot and/or you’re driving the manual version, which takes a bit of getting used to to shift smoothly. I don’t find the automatic jerky at all (hard for it to be, with the amount of power loss thru the transmission), and comparable to other crappy automatics in terms of the time it took to downshift… no better, no worse, and no fun. If you think the XT w/ an automatic tranny is a bucking bronco in city traffic, then you haven’t driven a manual LGT. If you do, you may want to pack airsick bags.

The CR/CU complaint refers to oversteer tendencies witnessed in a double-lane change limit handling maneuver, which have much more to do with the chassis dynamics rather than AWD bias. Even so, it was still deemed acceptable.

Driven normally, the OB is confident and capable in the snow. As with any AWD car that doesn’t have VDC or ESP, enough throttle will induce some level of oversteer as the rear tires break free.

I’ve got 40k miles on my 06 Civic SI. My honest-to-goodness assessment: Don’t make the move downmarket.

As you said, you bought a first year model with the LGT. My suggestion would be to move to a new TSX (if you can stomach/replace the grill) when it starts to offer their diesel or turbocharged engine. Or buy a CPO 335i sedan 6-speed w/ sport package and get the extended maintenance package…you’ll get 4 years/~80,000 miles of no worry driving. Of course, you’ll want to trade it in at the end since no one trusts those turbo engines for 100,000 miles of 15k oil changes…

The SI is a fun, reliable car and I realize it’s worth a good deal more than they charge for it….but the drive by wire programming is pretty terrible, and it’s a jerky ride in traffic (due to the throttle tip-in/lift-off characteristics).

At least go with the MazdaSpeed 3 in Pearl white (just coming out about now for the first time)….then you have twice the power at 3000 rpms than the SI to distract you :)

Joe