Lol your take on the Ecotec is hilarious and at odds with any car I have driven with this powerplant. A 4 door Cobalt with automatic will blow the doors off any 1.8 liter Corolla or Civic automatic I have driven. And guess what? They still use 4 speed automatics too and make lots of noise when pushed! I have seen plenty of Ecotec engines with over 200k miles an zero problems in company cars and commuters. My best friend has a heavier 2007 Malibu LT with the 2.2 Ecotec and has never had a problem passing cars on two lane roads and the tranny shifts very responsive unlike the Camry my neighbor has. But to each his own. I do agree that Pontiac screwed up big by cloning the Cobalt and sticking on a Pontiac grille and taillights and calling it a day.

have owned MB, Jag, Caddies, Triumphs, all the big three and an assortment of Japanese cars. Some where great, others were… lets not go there.

Im 6 ft 1 and 250 lbs of hockey playing Canadian Male. I don’t fit in a lot of cars.. 4th Gen Camaro for example, or Saturn Sky.. those are cars for little people. My real car is a Tahoe, full load, comfortable, has 220K miles on it and I just do normal maint on it. At $1.24 / L, I need a commuter car. So I drove a Civic (21K)… Too small head hits the roof and its seems small… a co worker has one and hates it, its a dealership queen, but I must say I enjoyed the Transmission. Tried the Focus(18K).. not bad but did not like it… its a me thing, not the car. I looked at the Mazda 3 (20K), but repairs are so expensive on any Mazda product, that I passed… liked the car. The Toyota Corolla (22K a Yaris was 19K) was nice but very expensive to buy, no deals. Looked at Hyundai (16K for the Accent), nice cars, drove well… but my sons best friends mother had to have her clutch replaced while still under warranty on her Turberion, at $1500 I was shocked. The Suzuki drove nice, but was a little small and my knees hit the bottom of the steering column getting in and out… a problem I also have on Nisans. Looked at the Saturn, nice but there are no5 speeds avail

Now I had a 2006 Cobalt sedan, it was my wifes and she loved it. I killed it running into a Ford 350 that made an improper turn into my lane. Car was a write off, but I walked away. So I was driving by the Pontiac dealership and saw a Competition Yellow G5 coupe. It was a base model, 5 spd, with AC. Drove great for an econo box. The radio was great, it shifted fine, the interior was pleasant, there was enough room for my legs, and my head did not hit the roof. With the appearance package, life insurance, prep out the door was under $16K… oh yeah at 0% over 72 months… that carries for less than two tanks of gas in my Tahoe for a NEW CAR!! I took it on the hwy cause that is where it will spend a lot of its life and it drove well, comfortable ride, seats are ok (not as nice as the Vibe) and it was quiet. I liked the growl of the engine… but then again I like the 350 in my 78 Camaro and the 6 in my TR6, so go figure. BTW this was the last Yellow standard in Ontario/Quebec.. I was thinking of getting the next level up in yellow and red, but they are not avail. I asked about the 5 spd in the sedan and the sales guy showed me that there were few avail… seems Canadians are buying manuals in record numbers and they cant get enough G5s. Not bad for a vomit inducer.

I expect this car to soldier on for many miles, and my son is already lining up to own it if I decide I need something else. I’m sticking to this inexpensive to buy, drive, insure and repair car… I have expensive ones sitting at home

Except for the rather rubbery feeling shifter on the G5, and the gearing, it would be a better car.

Oh, the interior isn’t as nice as the CIvic. It doesn’t ‘flow’ and isn’t so sculpted looking. But those things are not really tangible. THey both work fine, once you get used to it. THe G5 interior and upholsty was a step up from the Cobalt. The upholstry itself was as nice as the CIOvic, or really nicer. At least it was black rather than grey.

The CIvic is a really fine car. It is exceptional. Really zippy and light and futuristic. I could do anything in th way of sport driving with the CIvic. The G5 radio is a little better, with XM built in. But neither of them has HD Radio, so they both have to be modified anyway. THe G5 maybe takes a little longer to wind out, but you’d get used to it. I did like the G5. It should have gotten three stars, four if cost is considered. f the

THere is a ton of difference in price.

Does anyone want to tell me it isn’t a concern?

Take a 1996 Civic. Much better reliability than a 1996 Sunfire. Also higher resale value. And even though Honda made a decent car in 1996, it’s gotten progressively better ever since. Honda has improved upon the Civic’s reliability, power, efficiency, comfort and ride. While GM squeaks out a product that could have just as well been made during the Bush, Sr. presidency, people are trading their ‘04 Hondas in for ’08s. Except for Avis, Hertz, and Budget fleet buyers, I don’t think many people are rushing to Pontiac dealerships with excitement.

GM has lost touch with it’s buyers. The corporation understands that SUV buyers want space & power. They also understand that luxury buyers want power and finesse. What they don’t seem to understand is that small car buyers want economy, safety, and reliability. These are folks who commute to jobs every day. They normally care more about how much it costs to fill up their gas tank then they do about torque or red-lining the engine.

Hopefully the Astra helps GM to lure back GMs core bread-and-butter customers who helped establish the company’s brands so many years ago. Because if it doesn’t, Honda and Toyota have brands that currently fill that niche and Hyundai will probably be there soon. Heck, we even may see a bit of a renaissance at Ford. The reintroduction of the Fiesta in the U.S. is certainly more exciting and timely than a newly branded Cavalier-Sunfire. Hopefully GM will soon be inspired to build a quality, affordable, safe, reliable compact automobile. If not, we will see GM for what it truly is, a company that focuses solely on easy high margin profits to the detriment of the rest of their brands.

The GM cars tend to be noisy and crude, but they hold together all right.

It absolutely disgusts me that GM has abandoned the manual transmission for the US market too.

Don’t be pressured into buying a crappy slushbox transmission from any manufacturer. If you truly must buy GM, then get a pre-owned car if you have to do so.

Consider a 2006 Saab 9-2X (that is, GM’s version of the Subaru Impreza). It is inexpensive and very highly reviewed by the few people who learned about them before GM pulled the plug on that partnership.

The Saturn Astra looks like one of GM’s better efforts, and I believe it will have a manual.

.. and if you really have good taste, no one will fault you for picking up a vintage Porsche 944, which will be infinitely more enjoyable to drive than any modern FWD machine.

Being a GM employee, I feel I should buy from my employer. Because I have ZERO faith in the durability of the Big 3’s FWD automatic transmissions I want a manual (plus they are more fun). The only vehicle GM makes in the $15000 – $25000 price range with a stick shift is the G5 and Cobalt (Aveo is out of the question). I take that back, the Astra will have it if you can find one (no cupholders!!!).

Why no G6/Aura with a manual trans? I think the manual trans in the G5 GT was canceled for 2008!

GM has given up on stick shifts except in the Corvette, CTS, and soon to be G8.

However, if you subtract fleet sales from the Cobalt/G5 it still clocks in about 45,000 narrowly behind the popular Mazda3 and ahead of such stalwarts as the Corolla.

And thats the problem. That 33 mpg highway is still where they are. My 2001 Saturn SL1 would pull almost 40 mpg highway, and 34 in the city. What happened to progress?

I feel your pain there. Think about it, Chevy/Geo had the 50 MPG Geo Metro a few years back but the replacement Aveo can’t even get anywhere near that? I had a buddy telling me a story the other day of getting 52 MPG in his old Honda CRX back in the mid 1990’s from Nebraska to Texas loaded down with everything he owned but nowadays even an almighty Hybrid can’t scratch at those kind of MPG numbers?

In the case of GM and the Big 2.8, that would generally be the appropriate thing to do.

Some factoids about Canada’s market, circa 2006:

-1 of every 3 vehicles sold was a fleet vehicle

-The Big 2.8 controlled 78% of the Canadian fleet market; GM dominated with 42% of the total fleet market.

-21% of GM’s total sales went to fleet. (In contrast, fleets accounted for 12% of Toyota’s total sales, and less than 6% of Nissan, Mazda and VW combined sales.)

-The top ten fleet cars for 2006:

1. Impala
2. Pontiac G6
3. Chevrolet Malibu
4. Ford Focus
5. Chevrolet Cobalt
6. Pontiac G5/Pursuit
7. Chrysler 300/300C
8. Toyota Corolla
9. Ford Taurus
10. Toyota Camry

-Do the math, and you find fleet sales as a percentage of total sales for these nameplates:

Impala – 48.5%
Cobalt – 20.3%
G5 – 24.7%
Cobalt/ G5 combined – 22.3%
Focus – 24.8%
Corolla – 13.0%
Yaris – 15.4%
Camry – 19.5%

So yes, fleet sales are an important factor for the Big 2.8 in Canada. The Camry sales come as a bit of a surprise, but if that market parallels the US, then many of the Camry sales went to corporate fleets, rather than rental.

http://www.fleetbusiness.com/industry_stats/industry_stats_home.html
http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/guides_and_advice/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4676756

Yes, the car is an improvement over the Sunfire and Cavalier. However, I don’t think that there is a car on the market now that isn’t (likely including the Aveo, though I haven’t had the pleasure). The fact is that the Compact class is turning into more of what mid-size expectations used to be. That means more of a premium feel, more features/options, etc. Honestly, I think GM made a huge mis-step here as they could have made the GT engine standard, tightened up the handling, and had the only real 2+2 sports car for under 20k. As it is, the civic is more frugal and the tC is more refined with more standard features.

You omitted the third option — there are rental car agencies in Canada. As is true in the US, most vehicles in Canadian rental fleets are acquired from the Big 2.8.

So, are my fellow Canadians foolish or cheap or both? That, or the Cobalt and G5 must do something right.

Figures
This year Model Last year 2007 Sales
1 Honda Civic 1 70,838
2 Mazda3 2 48,236
3 Toyota Corolla 3 40,474
4 Toyota Yaris 4 34,424
5 Chevrolet Cobalt 5 32,613
6 Toyota Camry 6 28,218
7 Pontiac G5 8 25,211
8 Ford Focus 7 24,013
9 Honda Accord – 22,102
10 Nissan Versa – 21,940

I work for GM, but realize that the G5 is no Civic. However I drive one of these daily and it is no worse than 2 stars. It is much better than a Cavalier or Sunfire. Again there is room for improvement. I just cross my fingers and pray that it holds up as I commute to work and need to keep this car for 4 years minimum.

GM upper management should be forced to drive one of these for 2-3 years and log 20K-30K miles then you would see REAL improvement. Instead they drive Escalades and Corvettes.

That statement deserves to be challenged. The JD Power Initial Quality Survey reports the Cobalt as being “average” and the G5 as being “below average.” The Consumer Reports reliability surveys on the Cobalt show it to be average, and rank the Cobalt toward the bottom of the pool in comparison to its competition.

Given the superior reliability, resale value and driving experience offered by its competitors, there is no reason to recommend this car unless the primary goal is to buy some of the cheapest set of wheels in its class. In that case, buying a one-year old ex-rental might not be such a bad plan for a buyer for whom (a) resale value is irrelevant, (b) driving pleasure is a low priority and (c) reliability need not matter so much. One star might have been a bit harsh, but the “not recommended” label is certainly deserved.

Matthew Potena:
“That was a great review! While nobody, and I mean nobody, is as hard on American car manufacturers as I am, I think that they are just as capable of producing a good car as the Europeans and Japanese. They just have to put their minds to it.“

Yeah, that’s the catch. Producing cars (particularly small cars) just isn’t nearly as profitable as big SUVs and pickup trucks so the domestic efforts in this area are almost universally half-assed, at best. The last, true, domestic small-car hit was the original early-nineties Neon, one of Lee Iaccoca’s last efforts at Chrysler before he retired. GM’s attempt with the Saturn project wasn’t nearly as successful. The original Ford Focus wasn’t too bad when it was introduced, either. But then, when gas was plentiful and cheap, all the domestic eggs were collectively put into the body-on-frame, big SUV/pickup basket and cars went by the wayside.

Still, it demonstrates that it is possible for the domestics to come up with a decent small car design if they truly put the effort into it.