My post is to provide meaningful commentary and to catch up anyone who is interested in the article and the vehicle.

First off, Beat: We’re not discussing other vehicles with older technology diesel engines, the topic is GL320 CDI. It emmission profile is nowhere near that frightful list you posted earlier. Plus biodiesel mixtures can be burned which further reduces your emmissions profile. Plus you can brew the fuel at home if the economy every really collapses.

Regarding how much diesel you get from dinojuice (oil): light sweet crude (which there is less and less of) renders more gasoline per barrel. Heavy sour crude yields more diesel. Right now the diesel price inflation is due to a couple things, 1) us coming out of winter where fuel oil production competes with diesel, and increasing registrations of diesel vehicles worldwide.

As production shifts to accomodate this trend prices will equalize with respect to gasoline. It is cheaper and takes less energy to refine. This is the first time in my life that I’ve seen diesel so expensive vs. gasoline, 18 months ago it was cheaper than regular. Times changes, things change, this is highly unusual.

That said, even with the current price structure here in Florida diesel costs about 13% more than premium ($4.30/gal vs. $3.80). Premium is what you would have to put in a gasoline engine Benzer. But you still get the 30+% better fuel effeciency so it more than makes up for the price. Plus you go longer in between fillups so that a distinct luxury. More than 50% of all fillup stations have diesel.

In my ML320 CDI I have averaged better than 27MPG over the past 17,000 miles. This is 15% city traffic, 25% rural highway, and 60% freeway (FL turnpike). And I’m not an annoying hypermiler, routinely exceeding the speed limit by 2 – 5 MPH or even more. Just avoid fast starts and don’t *accelerate* towards the dang red light that’s in front of you and you will save money. BTW I also average 725 miles in-between fillups. That’s priceless. If you get 20MPG in a gasoline ML I would be surprised. I’ve read about diesel GL owners routinely averaging 26MPG but can’t speak for them. In both cases (ML and GL) awesome effeciency figures for large 4WD luxury SUVs.

Diesel vehicles also hold their value better. Go to the kelly blue book website and see how much a 2 year old diesel VW jetta is worth vs. it’s gasoline counterpart.

I am immensely thrilled with my ML diesel and would highly recommend it to folks who can afford it and don’t need the 3rd row of seats. The radar cruise control and air suspension options are incredible. Get the 2008 diesel while you can before the 2009’s come out with the urea addition system and the added complexity which is introduced.

Finally it’s the *interior* of a car that you see day in and day out. The interior of my vehicle (and the GL) is top notch, awesome layout, ergonomic design, and incredibly quiet. No comparison to a GM product.

Yes 10 years ago is still being used UNTIL today all over the world especially in Third World Countries.

Oh hwyhobo!!! check those trucks on 95 and 93 or your local inter-state
Do they still used Diesel engine from 10 years ago?

Yes we live in the United Stated doesn’t mean the consumer can afford newer diesel engines.

If a trucker can afford those kind of Diesel engine his a rich guy.

But still diesel is still bad for the environment

That’s MY POINT.

By “uneducated” I meant those who are unaware that the previous advantages of diesel have lately been eclipsed by the high price of the fuel itself, and the disadvantages are not going to be in the salesman’s spiel when he sells a soccer mom an oil-burner for a premium price.
Even long-haul truckers have seen the near-total loss of the enhanced efficiency of diesel, now that the price more closely reflects the percentage of a barrel of oil (that has increased to outrageous levels) that diesel represents.
And (at least at the local Exxon/Mobil station) the diesel pump’s hose is a lot longer (I assume for dual-tank fueling), and even with the retractor, drags on the ground, so it’s covered with dirt and diesel fuel “drippings”. It can easily drag against your leg while refueling, leaving an ‘aromatic’ residue behind. I know this because I recently had to refuel a rental Isuzu diesel box truck helping a friend move.

Condescension rarely makes for a convincing argument, particularly when all the support presented is:

long, heavy hose, the smell of her hands after filling up

Wow. That is so different from gasoline.

Debadge this thing and most people would have trouble telling you whether it was a Mercedes or a Chevy.

Diesel here is 25% more than regular gas, so there’s really no savings when it comes to fuel.

At least while Audi is watering down their lineup, they’re turning out some decent looking automobiles. Meanwhile BMW and MB seem like they’re being surpassed by domestics when it comes to styling, so kudos to the domestic manufacturers in that respect.

I still think the Escalade is at the top of this segment when it comes to looks. This thing looks more like a (bland, 4 year old) GM product than the Escalade does. And really, when it comes to the $70,000 SUVs, things like torque and handling aren’t what their target markets care about anyway. They care about nice leather, shiny rims and the badge on the front.

TrueDelta has been able to provide an astrisked result for the GL–the asterisk for a marginal sample size. The repair rate has been about 50 percent worse than the average, but not awful. Figure one successful repair trip per year initially.

http://www.truedelta.com/reliability.php

Another issue with diesel is that is not an answer for energy independence. A barrel of crude when refined produces less diesel than it does gasoline. The energy conversion potential of the engine is better, hence the higher mileage, but it is not enough to offset what is “lost” in refining. So from a “well to wheel” point of view there is no free lunch. However, for some vehicle types there is real advantage to long term durability that is offered by diesel.

The MB solution to the emission problem with urea injection seems intelligent but I have great doubts about motorists actually refilling the urea tank unless a “low urea” indicator light means an automatic inspection failure. You would think the high cost of the vehicle itself would indicate a willingness to spend what is necessary to make sure it is maintained properly but that is not the case. My wife’s father owned a successful repair facility for years and he can attest to the fact that there is no correlation between vehicle cost and willingness to maintain. It was not at all uncommon for someone to bring in their “ultimate driving machine” with dead struts and having the owner deciding that it was not “necessary” to change them. Hard to have an “ultimate” experience with a worn suspension, no? More evidence that brand cachet has more to do with purchase choice than anything else.

A 180hp bike engine will accelerate a truck/SUV, or anything as well as a 180hp diesel engine AS LONG as the gearing is there to allow it to stay in its power band.

BTW, diesel engines can’t rev above 5,000rpm or so simply because diesel fuel (which is in droplet form, not an atomized vapor) won’t burn fast enough to do so; it’s not a “breathing” issue, but a “burning” issue. No amount of boost can make a diesel rev faster.

is that about it? Did I leave something out?

Oh.

What area of the country do you live in?

Torque is great, but people who spout off that it’s the measure of how well a vehicle can accelerate don’t have the full story. *Output* torque *at the wheels* is the ultimate measure of how well a vehicle will accelerate (from a given speed). What people don’t realize is that the gearbox is a torque multiplier. You can use different gear ratios to trade RPM for torque, or vice-versa.

Yeah, I know the quotes: “Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races.” Then tell me this: why do race bikes, race cars, sports cars, snowmobiles, and just about anything that’s meant to go quick, have significantly higher horsepower ratings than torque? Who are the Formula 1 race teams “selling” these numbers to, considering they engineer their engines in order to win races and make themselves look good?

The measure of how well an engine can accelerate is based on how much work it can do in a given period of time. And by definition, Power = work/time. Look at it this way: say you have two guys trying to get a load of lumber moved across a construction site. Guy A is huge and strong and can take a whole bunch of lumber in one trip. However, he’s slow. Guy B on the other hand, is toned but not very robust. He has to take more trips in order to move all the lumber. But he can move very quickly, so he can make up for the fact that he can’t move much at a time by making more trips. Net, he can get the job done conceivably quicker than Guy A.

It’s the same thing with engines. A diesel engine offers great torque, which is great for day-to-day driving, since it doesn’t force you to rev the engine to get good power. As a result it feels responsive in the RPM range where you’re normally cruising around in. It pulls great from a stop, where no matter the gearing, your RPM’s are going to be low. (Mad clutch-slipping to get the revs up in a low-torque engine isn’t great to have to do all the time.) However, as has already been said, a diesel can’t rev high. It simply can’t breathe well/fast enough to continue to produce good torque at high revs. Since Power = Torque * RPM/5252, you can see that a diesel isn’t great for generating high peak horsepower figures.

A high revving, low torque engine is the opposite. Let’s take a sportbike engine, because they’re the perfect example. Because it’s small and has a short stroke, it doesn’t generate much torque. However, it spins ungodly fast and can continue to produce torque at high RPM’s. It’s the little guy who carries his light loads very quickly. As a result, you get great peak hp numbers (modern sport bikes are getting in the neighbourhood of 180hp/litre of displacement). But you have to rev the sucker to do it.

Assuming ideal gearing to get peak power all the time (while not ideal, today’s close-ratio gearboxes do a very good job at keeping the engine in its powerband), and all else being equal, 2 engines with the same horsepower rating have the same ability to accelerate a vehicle. Which engine has more torque makes no difference in that scenario.

The reason that torque numbers are quoted is because it lets you know HOW the engine makes its power. A torquier engine means its powerband is more accessible, which has benefits in all sorts of situations.

But at the end of the day, horsepower is the measurement that will tell you how well the thing will accelerate when your foot’s to the floor and the engine in its powerband sweet spot.

The Tahoe hybrid, in comparison would cost $2420 a year, has an air pollution score of 6, emits 8.7 tons of CO2. You can imagine that the upcoming Escalade hybrid will match those numbers.

If you must have a luxury Ute, the best is clearly still the RX400h (smaller, I know). $2166 a year in fuel costs, air pollution score of 8, 7.3 annual tons of CO2. And it’s quick too!

I know which one I would get.

I was basing my calculations on the stated 30% improvement in mileage for the diesel variant of the Mercedes. Obviously, the diesel Jeep doesn’t provide much of an advantage over the gasoline variant in terms of fuel efficiency.

When hybrids first came out, I would scoff at people talking about the money they were saving buying a hybrid. I’m ready to admit that it makes economic sense now with the price of gas pushing $4. But, at anything under $2 per gallon, you would never recoup the extra cost of buying a hybrid.

The gases in diesel exhaust can also create health problems. The top eight are listed here:
nitrous oxide
nitrogen dioxide
formaldehyde
benzene
sulfur dioxide
hydrogen sulfide
carbon dioxide
carbon monoxide.
Those most likely to be occupationally exposed to diesel exhaust include bridge, tunnel and loading dock workers, auto mechanics, toll booth collectors, truck and forklift drivers and people who work near areas where diesel powered vehicles are used, stored and maintained.

Disclaimer, have an oil tank, don’t have a diesel, never have ;)

Just paid my AMT based fed and state taxes. If I did have a diesel, I’d be looking to screw them right back. Paid so much extra that it would take decades to recoup.

Its even better when you look at the Grand Cherokee, and forgive me if this has already been talked about.

Limited 4×4, direct from Jeep
4.7L-V8, 19mpg hwy, msrp 39,285
3.0L Diesel, 22mpg hwy, msrp 40,940

If you drive 15000m/yr, assuming $3.60 for gas and $4.20 for diesel (yes, I know they change), the diesel costs you $20 MORE to run.

You mean, I can never recover the initial cost hit with my amazing mileage savings?? Sign me up!

Diesel fuel is still harmful to the environment worst than unleaded gasoline.

Too much smoke when the engine gets older and
very hard to find a gas station that sells diesel.