GM Global Product Maven Maximum Bob Lutz claims that satisfying new U.S. federal fuel economy regulations will cost the consumer an additional $6k per car, on average. That seems a bit of a strange statement, as there are already plenty of cars capable of besting the freshly-minted mandate. From Japan to Jerusalem, from Mumbai to Milan, the world is filled, and filling, with suitably fuel efficient passenger cars. The real question is whether or not America is ready– make that “willing”– to buy the same sort of frugal machines that the rest of the world has been driving for years. Take the Fiat Grande Punto. Please.
Despite the word “Grande,” the Punto is 158 inches long– a little longer than the ten foot pole with which most American Camry drivers wouldn’t touch an Italian car. Thanks to oversized details like swept back headlights and chunky door handles, the Punto doesn’t look especially small. The gorgeous front end evokes the, gulp, Maserati Coupe GT. The sides are sporty without the usual cheese wedge demeanor. The back end is wonderfully chunky and perfectly tidy.
In short, literally, after the MINI Cooper, the Punto is proof positive that manufacturers needn’t beat small, inexpensive cars with the fugly stick (I’m almost looking at you, Toyota Yaris).
The Grande Punto’s interior is its weakest link: a totally unremarkable design with materials appropriate for an American car that cost about $13k. Mercifully, Fiat has blessed the car's rock hard plastics with a pleasant matte finish. And the panels line-up with such precision you’d think the Italians drafted in some anal-retentive Swiss or Germans workers to screw the Punto’s interior together. (It’s the robots, stupid.) While bland, the cabin creates the impression that the Punto is well-assembled– a notion that no Italian car should be without.
Despite the Punto’s largely urban remit, the seats are built for the long haul. And you can forget the Italian astronaut driving position (if you like); the helmsman’s throne has manual adjustments out the wazoo. Space is also well managed; there’s plenty of room in the back for two adults or three Gumbys. Drop the second row, and the hatchback accommodates all your Euro-commodities.
The driving experience reveals the Fiat Grande Punto as a mini (no caps) masterpiece. We begin with the fizzy, crackling engine. Don’t let its 77 horsepower output fool you. Scientists from the Research Institute of Research have released a study that proves it is impossible to drive the Grande Punto without a shit-eating grin. Wind it all the way up, dump the clutch, wind it up again, and continue. For an engine with about half the displacement of a pair of galoshes, it sounds magnificent. Two valves per cylinder? Who gives a damn when it sounds like you’ve got a micro Ferrari.
The optional Duodrive semi-automatic transmission is like the one bar in Times Square that’s worth visiting. It’s a computer controlled five-speed manual transmission (like the high-performance transmissions in Maseratis, Ferraris, and Lamborghinis) with a clutch under the hood. Leave it in pure automatic mode and the computer will do everything for you. Or drive it in sequential mode and you may as well be driving a stick– without the clutch pedal.
The upshot to this system: it’s absolutely the closest any automatic transmission can come to feeling like you’re driving a manual. Gear changes are nearly instant. Volkswagen’s DSG is faster and smoother, but the Fiat feels every bit like the real deal. You’ll roll backwards on hills, neutral has a real use, and you can even feel light vibrations when accelerating from a standstill. The average American would no doubt bitch about an automatic with feedback, but Europeans have different tastes.
Again, the Fiat Grande Punto was designed for European cities. To wit: its over-light electronic speed sensitive steering. At velocities below 30mph, it’s like a videogame– which makes the Punto a breeze to drive around the average continental avenue’s absurd 135 degree turns. When you get up to speed, the steering tightens-up to give sporting drivers some of the weight they need for speed.
Understandably enough, the Punto’s suspension is more about comfort than sport. That’s what higher performance Puntos are for (with a whopping 100 horsepower). For a city car, the base model absorbs the abuses of urban roads extremely well– while preserving the fun factor. Cars with tiny powder keg engines beg to be flogged; the Punto’s suspension places the “S” over the “M.” There’s some body roll through the corners, but it’s less dramatic than you’ll find in a regular Civic or Mazda3.
The Fiat Grande Punto is a small, easy to maneuver car with a hoot of an engine, a ripping good transmission, great handling, an outrageous price and fantastic fuel economy. It's just not for Americans. So, uh, what is?
97 Comments on “2008 Fiat Grande Punto Review...”
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I really miss outrageously cool little cars like this, though it might be a bit tight for a 77″ tall goon like myself.
It actually looks like what Ford should have done with the new Focus, instead of launching the hard-disk-drive on wheels that they did.
What a shame… but keep the reviews coming; maybe somebody will “get it”.
Edit: I owned a ‘72 Fiat 128 — and while it was a “rusting tin can”, it had qualities that endeared it in my memory (I got laid in the car, thanks to the “fold-flat” front seat backs) ;-)
I’m sure this version will keep up the Fiat tradition of mechanical reliability and quality. With bland styling and a lame interior to match I’m sure these will be selling like hotcakes.
“an additional $6k per car”!
I have great respect for Bob but it’s hard to work out the logic, or mathematics, behind such a statement.
GM must understand that the fuel prices are likely to keep going up.
So with or without the regulations more people are likely to look for better fuel economy.
All the Japanese manufacturers understand this; why are the US manufacturers fighting it?
You’d think they’d have learned the lesson in the late 70s early 80s…
Aaaaaah Fiat. I traveled all over Europe in my 89 Fiat uno, and have unforgettable memories.
Very reliable engines, but it’s the small pieces (door locks, window cranks,…) that usually fell apart. Fun to drive too.
I for one is very happy that Fiat is doing well now, and the Grande Punto is a beautiful car, although it’s a shame the interior is crappy (having spent seat time in one, I can confirm that, a comparable Peugeot 307, not to mention a Golf, have much better interiors).
The real question is how much would it cost to get this car to meet federal safety and emissions requirements. And after all of that extra safety equipment and reinforcements are met how much light, airy, zippiness will remain.
Wow, what a sharp looking little car.
GM must understand that the fuel prices are likely to keep going up.
So with or without the regulations more people are likely to look for better fuel economy.
All the Japanese manufacturers understand this; why are the US manufacturers fighting it?
You’d think they’d have learned the lesson in the late 70s early 80s…
I think the real problem is that most Americans hate to compromise. As long as fuel was not expensive, driving a 10mpg vehicle was not seen as a problem, but now, many people want fuel-efficient large vehicles, where they sit 12 feet off the ground (but with a great aerodynamic coefficient).
The number of people who told me “nah, I can’t drive a car like your golf, I’m too big for that”. Well, I’m 6′2 and I fit in like in a glove!
The real question is how much would it cost to get this car to meet federal safety and emissions requirements. And after all of that extra safety equipment and reinforcements are met how much light, airy, zippiness will remain.
Erm, European safety and emissions requirements are no less stringent than American.
“All the Japanese manufacturers understand this; why are the US manufacturers fighting it?”
Not really when you consider Toyota spent billions on a new Tundra and Honda’s first hybrids were mostly geared towards performance. The fact is reviewers will always praise HP and that idea trickles down to the masses. When the Ford Five Hundred first came out, the biggest complaint was lack of HP. When people compaired Fusion and Malibu to the Camry again people complained that the V6 in the Fusion and Malibu don’t have as much HP as the Camry. Now the domestics have a long way to go to improve engine efficiency and the like, but they still have to compete on the merits of HP. Until people start saying that 0-60 times mean nothing, this problem will never be fixed.
I would love to see more of these on NA shores. Dodge: Please build the Hornet concept (but not in China!) GM: Build one of your compact concepts, was it the Beat that won? Ford: You already have a great car, I’ll have the Fiesta please!
I understand it’s just not that easy to bring vehicles from Europe and make a profit (Astra anyone?) but even to have a cheaped out version build here on the same platforms, there must be something they can do!
GM sells a pretty successful, if less pretty, version of this car in Europe: The Opel/Vauxhall Corsa.
It is funny how this small car segment has actually ballooned. Euros aren’t immune to cars porking out either. What I find strange is that the Fiat Grande Punto gained 20cm in length compared to the old model… but also at the same time the new Peugeot 207 and Renault Clio III also gained the same amount to arrive at the same length +/- a cm or two.
Is it new regulations, or are they all trying to stuff more things into cars that used to be small? Do they have a gentleman’s agreement on the size and weight? This is too bad because if they made things independently we would have a larger diversity of cars, and could choose the one that is “just right”. But I think they would rather be pretty much all the same so as not to risk being the odd duck out.
Drove the little Punto a year ago in Germany and loved the styling. Granted, the 1.4 wasn’t going to win any races, but with traffic being what it is, so what? Europeans have grown accustomed to high fuel prices and have adjusted their driving style to match. Little, fuel-efficient cars are the norm, and many manufacturers learned long ago that small need not be dull. As a matter of fact, small can be immensely fun. Americans, taken as a whole, are much more inclined to believe that cheap fuel is a birthrite and that bigger must be better, because…well because it MUST be better. Every day as I drive my little Tercel to work I mentally count how many large cars are on the road (usually with one passenger) and wonder if Americans will ever get it. Unfortunately, Americans aren’t wired the same way when it comes to driving, and I’m not sure they ever will come to terms with the concept of “limited resources.” I’d love to see more cars like this make it over to the US and be successful, but in the land of “perceived” plenty, they will continue to struggle in the valley of the shadow of the SUV.
I’m always amazed when Americans say that these kinds of cars are too small for Americans and that they don’t fit in them. I live in The Netherlands and the Dutch are the tallest people on earth, but cars like the Punto are the best selling cars in the country (In 2007 the best selling car was the Peugeot 207).
I’m a little puzzled. How can FIAT the same car in Mexico but not across the Rio Grande. (that question is for Ford as well which sells the euro focus in mexico.
and bigger is (mostly) better so why not the 130hp 1.9 turbo diesel.
@HEATHROI:
I think the star engine is the turbocharged 1.4 – 120 horsepower.
Fuego:
Americans are the second fattest people on earth (Saudi Arabia has highest obesity rate I believe) and the gas prices here aren’t nearly as high as they are in The Netherlands. If they were to approach that level, I’m sure many would accept a smaller vehicle.
HEATHROI:
Emissions standards.
The “I would’t fit in it” comments I always hear are just ridiculous. Of all the cars I’ve ever driven, my ‘95 VW Golf had the most driver room and sense of space. I drove an ‘03 Vauxhall Corsa a couple years ago…also very comfortable in the front seats, even over long distances.
I think it’s just that people like to have a lot of “air space” over their heads (typical with large SUVs or trucks). Must be psychological. But weight and drag typically pay the price for excessively tall vehicles with a bunch of unused space. As mentioned, there are lots of very tall Northern Europeans who don’t have this hang-up and gladly drive small cars.
Perhaps part of the problem in North America is also our bloody dull road system. The most fun I’ve ever had is pushing a 1.2L Clio through some switchbacks in France… Not too many roads in NA where you may actually have to do a 3 point turn to get to the next uphill segment!
As an american family we have always had a small car and a large car (mini van etc.) BUT we also made an effort to have a short commute. It is about lifestyle choices as much as the car you drive. Again automobiles are easy targets.
I will admit I have a negative bias toward FIAT from their not so good history here in the US. It appears they now have some great cars. But I’m having trouble finding my local dealer. If these cars are that great, come on over, join the party. Now is your big opportunity.
Also, I like my peanut butter chunky. I’m not sure about my cars. Plus it’s 12,000 EUROs
There are strong, compelling reasons why Fiat (and Alfa Romeo, and Citroen, and Renault, and Peugeot) will not even attempt to sell their case in America: They know better.
Cars from these makers, in every category that counts, are absolute garbage compared to Toyondas, or even American iron. I just spent about a month in New Zealand, and all those car lines are sold there.
“The real question is how much would it cost to get this car to meet federal safety and emissions requirements.” Um, about $6,000 per car.
“And after all of that extra safety equipment and reinforcements are met how much light, airy, zippiness will remain.” Um, none.
Larry P2
Au (slight) contraire:
The Renault Versa is selling reasonably well in the US. They just had to foist it onto Nissan to make it work ;)
Ah, the Research Institute of Research. I applied for a fellowship there once but I didn’t get it. I hear it’s a great place to work though.
He was just laying the ground work for their $6k price increase across the board.
Pretty cool car, looks like some flair back in the saddle. The interior plastics should match what the domestics put out now, so no biggie.
I suspect the additional $6K mentioned by Clutz is intended to shore up/subsidize lagging sales from almost all other corners of GM’s market and has little to do with fuel economy regs. It’s a ridiculous statement to make and only underscores my belief that GM has given up on the US market.
I’m always amazed when Americans say that these kinds of cars are too small for Americans and that they don’t fit in them. I live in The Netherlands and the Dutch are the tallest people on earth, but cars like the Punto are the best selling cars in the country (In 2007 the best selling car was the Peugeot 207).
I sometimes think it’s because cup holders in European cars, if present at all, cannot contain Big Gulps! My friends always make fun of the cupholders in my golf (which are indeed very flimsy), and don’t believe me when I tell them that Europeans drive. They don’t use their cellphones, drink, shave, or watch movies, they drive (although bad habits are emerging too). And they drive with 2 hands on the wheel, since so many cars still have manual shifters.
The Renault Versa is selling reasonably well in the US. They just had to foist it onto Nissan to make it work ;)
And how light, airy, and fun to drive is that car?
@quasimondo:
The Versa is airy, at least. Plenty of headroom. Pity about the engine, steering, transmission, tires, and suspension.
I’d settle for an Alfa Romeo 147
1) I imagine Bob Lutz is referring to the cost of making all of the cars full on hybrids, as that probably would cost an average of $6,000.
2) European emissions and safety standards are not the same as American emissions and safety standards. Just because a car meets their standards doesn’t mean it will meet ours.
3) Isn’t 12,000 Euros about US$21,000? How many people would be willing to pay that kind of money for a small underpowered Fiat when they could get a Honda Fit, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, etc. for less (much less) with little gas mileage penalty? Very few I’m guessing.
@Lumbergh21:
Re: price – we can’t just convert Euros to dollars and call it a day. Consider that the BMW 328i costs 34,600 Euros in Germany. That translates to $51,000. But the 328i isn’t $50,000.
If the Fiat Punto was sold in the U.S. (and don’t worry, it never would be), it would probably cost about $14,000.
@AKM – you are so right no big gulps, no burger joints, despite the fact that everyone has a cell phone and the service is better than in the US (Nationwide), The seldom use them in the car. But as you said, It is hard to shift gears with a big gulo in one hand and a cell phone to your ear.
They also don’t spend hours in their cars in traffic jams, or driving 1,000 miles in a straight line across the plains. They don’t have plains, and they use trains.
Who knew a big gulp made people fat? And when did it become so wrong to enjoy a tasty beverage while on the road?
Who knew a big gulp made people fat?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30903-2004Dec28.html
When you consider that an appropriately sized meal is anywhere from 400 to 700 calories, and one 44-ounce Super Big Gulp is 800 calories, you understand the scope of the problem. A 16-ounce Starbucks blended coffee Frappuccino is 470 calories. A single mixed drink can set you back 300 calories or more.
‘Nuff said.
“All the Japanese manufacturers understand this; why are the US manufacturers fighting it?”
GM and Ford make and sell small fuel efficient vehicles in Europe and elsewhere just like Toyota makes gas guzzlers for the American market. The problem is not the carmakers – they just make what people want. The issue is the expectation of the consumer and in the US small cars are seen as unsafe automotive penalty boxes. The US consumer wants larger and softer sprung vehicles which are not called hatchbacks (small wagons, CUVs but never call it a hatchback – it spooks the US consumer).
It is ironic that the majority of Americans want the government to “do someting” about our energy situation in the hope that a new energy policy will make everything alright and that everyone can carry on driving land barges. The truth of the matter is that it’s not the car makers that are fighting against smaller cars – it’s the consumer – and that is something no energy policy can fix. That’s what Maximum Bob meant by his $6,000 comment – he knows that American car buyers will continue to demand large cars no matter what and that GM will have to come up with technology to make them more fuel efficient.
And I thought the $6k price increase was to make up for the dollar’s rapidly approaching parity with the peso:-).
Silly me….
@ AKM
I’ve always wondered about that claim; do they simple count the calories in 44 oz of High Fructose Corn Syrupy soda or do they take into account the fact that most people add a significant amount of calorie-free water in the form of ice?
The FIAT is a nice enough car, I guess, although I think it looks too much like a Golf.
These cars might not be too small for the driver and one passenger, but they’re often too small for a driver and two passengers. Case in point – my 6′3″ brother-in-law fits just fine into his VW GTI, but nobody can sit behind him. It’s even tough for me at 6′ to sit behind my 5′5″ sister when she’s riding shotgun. Mini car ≠ family car.
Southern Europe is brim full of those new Punto’s. Fiat has a real smash hit in their hands. They actually look very sleek in real life too! A very good design combined with modern technology and low consumption – it looks like those $2 billions from GM were put to good use! :)
It looks like a nice little car. I don’t think i’d mind the interior too much, it seems basic and workable, if the car were cheap enough.
Justin, did you fly to Mexico or Italy to drive one? England? TTAC must be rolling in the dough!
I’ll say it again…Americans are stuck on the notion that we are due inexpensive fuel and were born with the right to drive huge vehicles (it must be somewhere in the Bill of Rights). There is a certain arrogance that we maintain when it comes to this. Our vehicles have transformed into rolling living rooms, whereas the Europeans still maintain that driving is driving. I once thought that pushing $3/gallon would result in a shift in driving habits, but as I look out on I-26 today, I don’t see it. The “it’s too small” argument borders on lazy on our part, largely due to the fact that we are, well…so large! We publicly decry our reliance on foreign oil, yet get in our 20 MPG vehicles and blissfully drive ourselves to and from work alone in these behemoths. Until the American culture towards cars change, neat, fuel-efficient small cars will remain on the fringe of our automotive market. And it truly is a shame…
The 4 star is very true for this car.
Funny the Fiat is faster than my old 1999 Mitsubishi Mirage. Mine was 98hp without the performance parts in it.
This car interior is fabulous and the price,
I drop my jaw. WOW!!!
Mini Cooper watch out or be square.
I think the single biggest problem facing acceptance of small cars is, first, the availability and acceptance of small NICE cars.
To a degree, MINI, Mazda3, and GTI accomplish this…but those are all heavily GenY and GenX marketed.
I’m talking about cars like the Audi A3–something that will appeal to boomers with real money, which in turn will help them influence other decision-makers, spouses, children, etc. Acura sells a car in Canada which is based on the Civic, as well as Merc B-class…but somehow Americans are SOOO fundamentally different than Canadians, we just couldn’t handle it. This seems insane to me, since the car has to be shipped all the way to North America, only to be offered to less than 1/10 of the continent’s people. Failure in marketing, IMO.
Justin,
If the Fiat Punto were sold here for $14,000 I’d be first in line. I know they never would be… imagine Ferrari dealers setting-up Fiat-flogging trailers next to their showrooms. Hey, rich or poor, at least all the customers could relate as drivers.
As a Canadian I can say that the Acura CSX (Acura’s version of the Civic) and the Mercedes B class are both grossly overpriced for what they offer. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side
“there are already plenty of cars capable of besting the freshly-minted [mileage] mandate… Take the Fiat Grande Punto. Please.”
So, how many liters per 100 klicks?
@zcline:
I was on a personal vacation when I arranged too spend a day in this car (not a rental). I was in Israel.
@durailer:
me too!
the 1,4 T-jet shows a combined mileage of 42,8 MPG…”highway” mileage is 52,3, while “urban” is around 32,5.
http://www.auto-power-girl.com/pics/photo-gallery/fiat_grande_punto_abarth_ss-28086
Just imagine that you put performance parts on Punto and this what it looks like (sorry the page addess is too long)
well it sells for $27,500 in Australia I really dropped my Jaw on the price. Top Speed of 195 kmh
8.9 seconds 0-60
seems like the real thing standing in the way of our having fun fuel-efficient little cars is all those dang safety and emissions regulations.
I don’t understand all the negative comments about Americans and their desires. The average American is quite capable of determining how much income he has, and how much of it he’d like to use to purchase gasoline.
You can bet if Europeans could buy four litres of gas for one and a half Euros (I couldn’t be bothered to work out precise exchange rates) then they’d be driving larger cars too.
When the time comes that Americans can only afford to drive something the size of a Punto, they will.